Ep3 – The Influential Sales Edition with Simon Hazeldine

James Nathan: 00:55 Hello and welcome to the only one business show with me, your host James Nathan. Today I have a fantastic guest for you. This gentleman works internationally as a professional speaker and consultant in the area of sales and negotiation, using some of the latest findings from the world of neuroscience to help us sell more effectively to our customers. He’s spoken in over 30 countries and his client list includes some of the world’s largest and most successful companies. He has a master’s degree in psychology and is the best selling author of five books that have been endorsed by a host of business leaders, including multi-billionaire business legend, Michael Dell. When he’s not working, he seems to do some properly crazy and some people might say stupid things like diving under ice and walking through fire and across glass and then completing physical challenges that even the Royal Marine Commandos find difficult. Please welcome Simon Hazeldine. Simon, nice to see you.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 01:46 Yeah, hello James, how you doing? Thank you for having me on.

 

James Nathan: 01:49 It’s a pleasure. So you do the Fan Dance and other crazy stuff.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 01:53 Yeah, yeah, I’m a bit mad. I think that’s what it is. You know….

 

James Nathan: 01:58 Is that it? For those people who don’t know the Fan Dance is a very long march through the Brackens. Is that right?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 02:06 Yeah. 16 miles up and down Penny Fan mountain carrying a 35 pound bergen and it’s the first stage of Special Air Service in the UK, Special Forces selection and the events run by ex members of the regiment too. I think, have these latent psychopathic tendencies. Then if they haven’t got anybody to inflict them on, I think, you know, they, they choose members of the public. And so it’s a great event, it’s a good challenge and it raises some money for some, you know, some military charities and things like that. So, but yeah, it’s a tough old day.

 

James Nathan: 02:47 Well I can just watch people do that and I think ‘look good on you’. Looks like a hell of a thing to do. So what’s, when you talk about neuroscience and helping people sell more effectively, what does that mean?

 

Simon Hazeline: 03:00 Well, we’ve learned more about the human brain probably in the last five, maybe to 10 years than we have in the whole of human history. You know, things like, you know, MRI scanning, etc, allows us to see what’s happening, blood, flow in the brain, etc. And, it feels like almost every week, you know, neuro scientists are uncovering something more that kind of helps us to understand how the brain functions. And obviously for me as someone who works in the area of sales, performance, sales transformation, you know, it’s the brain that is basically making the decision to buy. So what I’m fascinated by is what can we learn from neuroscience that we can then apply in order to sell most successfully to the brain, inside our customer’s head. And so I collaborated with a guy called Dr Colin Wallace, who’s an expert in applied neuroscience.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 03:51 So Colin, was sort of my technical advisor when I did, did my latest book, Neurosell, how neuro science comparing sales success and found some fascinating things in there, you know, the sheer amount of emotional processing and emotional influence that there is on decision making. So unless someone is feeling comfortable, they are not likely to make any purchase. So they’ve gotta be comfortable with the salesperson, they’ve gotta be comfortable with what they’re hearing. And that kind of just proves what you and I, and people who’ve been around the world of sales for some time know about the importance of rapport and relationship. But it is, is good to get it kind of scientifically, backed up and proven. So yeah, that’s a real area of fascination for me on an ongoing basis.

 

James Nathan: 04:47 Isn’t there a quote for, I think it was Brian Tracy said we buy with emotion and justify with logic. Is that kind of bringing some science to that?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 04:55 There’s, some data, I got quotes, I think almost in the, in the first or second chapter that a journalist who’d been interviewing neuroscientists sort of summarise that 95% of sort of human cognition decision making, et Cetera, is influenced by the more emotional and unconscious regions of the brain with as little as 5% being coming from say like the prefrontal cortex where more rational, rational, analytical processing takes place. That’s a phenomenal percentage difference.

 

James Nathan: 05:29 Does it switch, does it turn, you know, from, does the logical side increase after purchase, I’m thinking kind of buyer’s remorse and things like that.

Simon Hazeldine: 05:39 Yes, I think, you know, potentially, yeah, I don’t think I’ve got any specific evidence that, that happens. But the research and…. There’s no specific research that’s been done on that. But certainly if we looked at more manipulative forms of selling that perhaps take place in certain industries or the way certain people do, where they will really focus on inflaming the emotional centre of the brain and using some of those manipulative kind of tactics, that is probably when buyer’s remorse, when that part of the brain, when the emotional region of the brain is very active or overstimulated, the more rational areas don’t function as effectively. So, and then I think when that comes down and you probably what is happening is the more rational cortex starts to function more effectively and you probably go, Whoa, wow, I probably didn’t need that.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 06:29 You know, that TV. I think at apply black Friday or you know, otherwise, as far as they’re able to tell, rational human beings are kind of fighting almost, have literally been fighting in certain cases. But that to some degree, you know, that is also the work of professor Robert Cialdini, which I’m sure you’re familiar with. That’s the combination of perceived scarcity of the television, and social proof. Everyone else who’s running at it, so I must run at it. Then I think what’s happening is the emotional centuries of the brain is becoming overactive and people start behaving in a kind of a pretty irrational manner.

 

James Nathan: 07:09 It’s great for the retailer. I’m not sure what it does for the rest of us and for society, but sn’t it just an extension of the old, you know, the end of season sale.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 07:18 Yeah, I think what is definitely happening is, which I think is a big shift in the way people are buying, is that people are becoming more, I think more sussed to that. And, more cynical about those sorts of marketing things. And it’s starting obviously because of the amount of information available on the Internet. You can do more research and that’s definitely, what’s happening in sales. You know, B2B buyers…. I was running a value selling programme yesterday and quoted a couple of bits of data. One is B2B buyers are now 57% of the way through their buying process before they want to see a salesperson. And I think it’s 84% of senior buyers use social media as part of their buying process. So people are conducting a lot more research before interacting with any form of salesperson.

 

James Nathan: 08:12 Yeah. If you look at your own your own life, I guess. I’ve been looking at cars recently and you know, by the time you’re going into a showroom, you know what you want. It’s just a matter of deciding whether you’re going to have it or not. So B2B is going the same way almost.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 08:27 Yeah, absolutely. I was with a friend of mine, at the weekend who works in the automotive industry and he told me the data, now is people visit on average 1.2 dealerships before they buy. Previously they would see a lot. Basically what they’re doing is they’re doing those visits, in inverted commas online first and they’re coming in. And that is certainly in terms of, in terms of where B2B buying is going is it’s been very heavily influenced by people’s B2C buying experience because all B2B customers are B2C customers in their own private lives. You know, the service provision, you know, the incredible speed of people like Amazon, and the incredible logistics that they have underpinning that allows them to offer a very, very rapid service. I think that’s going to be putting pressure on a lot of B2B businesses to kind of, you know, going to be able to get the same experience but to be getting as close to that experience as you possibly can.

 

James Nathan: 09:29 It’s something a lot of people are talking about at the moment. And I find it fascinating, the Amazon effect, and it, and it filters right through. If I look at my kids who are 10 and 12, they expect everything instantly. And to be honest, they get that in most of what they want in their lives, which, you know, consuming media or whatever it might be. They don’t have the fun of waiting to Christmas for their movie to come out. They watch it now and if it’s not available now, they get, you know, a bit worried about why not, you know, why isn’t the internet working Dad? And I’m going, I don’t know, it just comes out of the wall. So, when you’ve got kids growing up that way, it’s no small wonder that the world is constantly moving toward a right now and, right now perfectly. Amazon certainly reinforces that, doesn’t it?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 10:17 Oh, absolutely. With Prime, you know, I was flying out to work with a client, in the USA a couple of weeks ago. And I was flying first thing Sunday morning from Heathrow. And then on Saturday I was on Amazon buying a book. And I, it was 11:00 AM Saturday morning. And, I mean, it was, it wasn’t, it wasn’t a mainstream, wasn’t a particularly mainstream title. It was reasonably niche. And I thought, well, it’d be nice to have this for the flight cause I’ve got an eight hour flight. Then I thought, well that’s, that’s not gonna happen. And as I was going through the order process. It says, well, if you order, if you order now or before 12, you can have it today. And I’m like, really? You know, so I pressed the order and go and then it was 6:00 PM this book drops through my letterbox.

 

James Nathan: 11:06 And it’s two hours in major cities now. I live in rural Oxfordshire and I can get limited things delivered instantly. But, you know, if I wanted paper for my printer, it comes today and I’d think, well, I’m out in the middle of nowhere. But then knock on into B2B, must be difficult for some businesses, to cope with or to certainly hold their head above water when others have got the, you know, the logistics capacities or whatever it might be.

 

Simon Hazeline: 11:35 Yeah, it’s, it certainly putting, certainly putting a tough service and sales environment in people’s, in people’s way. There’s no, there’s no two ways about it. But you know, there’s nothing you’re going to do to be able to stop it. So you’re either going to have to rise to the challenge or I think your business will suffer as a result. I think the speed and the availability are absolutely critical. Certainly some research from Vodafone…. I think I’d saw the last version probably about three years ago. They had conducted a survey of businesses. And if I’m correct here, I’m probably not quoting the exact language, but it was if as a business owner, you left a message with a printing company, like a local printer for a quotation or something, how long would you wait for them to respond before you would go somewhere else?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 12:26 And I think when they first started doing the research, it was kind of a couple of days. And the last time I saw the research, it was down to hours. And to your comment about your sons, the younger the respondent, the less time they were prepared to wait, which I think is, you know, my son has certainly grown up, he’s was 22 so he’s kind of grown up with that, you know, the world at your fingertips. And it’s definitely influencing the way those people and also those of us of older generations, you know, we’re big Amazon fans in our house, you know, they get a fair slug of our household spend. It’s gotta be said.

 

James Nathan: 13:04 Oh, do you know what? I start to worry about the amount of cardboard that comes through my business, my home and, my business, but my home, it’s quite nuts. But it is also a very nice thing that you can do these things very quickly and very easily. And, I think the speed of life is…. People moan about it, but it’s a convenience is a wonderful thing in, in lots and lots of ways.

Simon Hazeldine: 13:30 I’m a big fan of it, you know. Amusingly it was probably about a couple of years ago or something and I got a phone call fromthe bank and they don’t normally phone, you know, I said, oh, we, you know, we’d like to invite you in. I think they kind of producing these premium like black accounts or something where you get, you know, you pay a fee and you get some sort of concierge service and you know, travel, you know, travel insurance, like a premium bank again. And the guy said, we’d like to invite you to come into the branch. You know, do a review so we can kind of explain. And I can remember distinctly saying, I paused and I went come into the branch?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 14:16 This guy goes, yeah, you know….. I imagine some guy in marketing has gone, let’s make this a very special premiumy sort of service, but I’m just going…. I don’t live far out of town, you know, we live in a village and you know, we’re a few miles road. I’ve got to drive in, park, walk, you know, and I’m like: “cant’ it be done over the phone”. Cause I know we’d really like to, you know, all these sorts things and bless him, you know, as its probably a great idea. They’re trying to differentiate themselves, but they, they definitely talked to the wrong person, you know.

James Nathan: 14:46 Well you know I talked to a lot of my clients about that sort of thing and you know, they talk about clients come to them and what wonderful….. And I’m saying, why are your clients coming to you? Why are you not going to them? I mean, you know, if they’re important, you know, where we are is the service element of making someone get in the car, come into town, park up, spend some money on parking and visit you while you’re doing them a favour. Um, it’s an interesting mix of mindset, but uh, yeah, going to a branch, I don’t even know where a branch of my bank would be.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 15:16 Yeah. No, I mean I know where mine is cause it’s been my bank since I was 16, but its not moved. But last year I said I cannot remember the last time I’ve been, I seriously can’t remember the last time I’ve been in. So, that’s the kind of changes I think people are going to have to do. You gonna have to be ahead of the curve on this.

James Nathan: 15:34 It’s got a long way to go as well I think. I think it’s, you know, we’re, we’re at the start of a wave at the moment of this stuff and where it goes next is going to be quite interesting. A lot of businesses need to be very, very agile to cope. A am I going to see businesses disappear? And you know, I was talking to someone before they were, you know, mourning the loss of Woolworths on the high street. And I said to them, well, you know, it didn’t matter a damn to me and I have never been in one and I’m never going to. So, you know, and if I, if I’m not using it, I don’t, I’m just, you know, Joe blogs and then these things just disappear.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 16:09 Well, this is a little bit of a plug inadvertently. I have a, have a podcast sales chat show, saleschatshow.com, and we did an episode, we were in the studio last week and you know, the episode was are sales people aa indangered species? And to a degree at the more transactional end, yes is the answer. And I’m an alumni of Loughborough University. And in the university magazine, they had a professor talking about sales in an article on sales and you know, saying that complex, high end B2B or probably be still a need for, for sales people more, but at the other end, absolutely not because I think some of the retailers do deliver very little additional value from their sales people. They’re very transactional in nature so therefore I can just buy transactionally online easier, you know, actually physically having to interact with a salesperson is actually more of a hindrance than help to them.

 

James Nathan: 17:16 What a shame, I know there’s a, chain of a clothing stores recently that I saw have got a new thing where you either pickup and a green bag or a red bag. And if you carry around the green bag it means you’d like someone to help you. And if you carry around the red bag, it means I don’t want any help, thank you very much. And I thought, you know what, I’m not sure I like that. I like the fact that it allows you to make a choice, but I don’t see why someone shouldn’t say to you, hi, can I help you today? And you say to them, look, no thanks. Just having a look. It doesn’t need to be quite as blatant. A minute ago while we were talking earlier, you mentioned manipulative selling and it’s something that I find quite quite interesting. What’s the difference between influencing and manipulating in a sales environment?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 18:03 Yeah, now that’s an interesting question. There are probably a couple of ways of looking at it. A guy called Dave Lakhani wrote a book ‘Persuasion’, an American guy. And, I really liked it. I think the way, and I’m hopefully accurately recalling what he said. His view was that the only difference between persuasion and manipulation was intent, was the intent to help the person, that the actual, you know, potentially the tactics or strategies that might be used are quite similar. I think that’s one, that’s one kind of perspective on it. Um, I tend to view sales as the process of helping the customer to make a good buying decision. And hopefully, I’m able to position what I offer or my company, as a good decision for them to make.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 19:05 I guess if the sales process is kind of overriding their ability to make a good and informed decision through pressure or psychological tactics, you know, then that’s probably moving into the area of manipulation. I’ve guessed the acid test is afterwards, how happy is the customer with the outcome, you know, on an ongoing basis. You know, manipulation can succeed in the short term. But I would say I don’t think it succeeds in the long term. Also anyone who indulges in it, particularly in the age of social media is in danger of having their reputation tarnished pretty savagely and correctly so, you know, certain industries are still behaving in a very old school, manipulative manner, you know. It’s a long time since I bought double-glazing a buddy it was, you know, its probably 16 years ago. I hope they’ve improved, but they tried the full on nonsense manipulation all the way through.

 

James Nathan: 20:15 Yeah. It’s almost become a cliche hasn’t it? You know, time share and, and double-glazing.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 20:21 And then the last time I bought a car, which was probably three, three and a bit years ago, we were on the receiving end of a, of a very blatant scarcity close at one stage. You know, we had agreed to purchase, we put down a deposit and that’s kind of on a Friday and my wife was going away for the weekend and my wife was still dealing with it fully. She does in our house and in our business, deals with the finances. So we said that we’ll reconnect with you Monday and well you know, deals done and we’ve got some very disappointing, you know, they were trying to get hold of my wife on her mobile phone over the weekend because the sales manager was pressuring the salesperson allegedly to make sure we were going to be going ahead cause someone else was looking at it. And I’m thinking, hang on a minute. We agreed what we are doing here and I let them have it with both barrels cause I got a phone call from my wife saying, you know, she was away for the weekend with her friends, you know, and having a relaxing weekend with her girlfriends and she was getting this sales guy harassing and I’m thinking, ‘what the hell’ you know, he nearly lost the sale on the back of it. Cause my emotional centre of my brain became overly stimulated.

 

James Nathan: 21:37 Do you know what though, it was me. If the option was to go to a different dealer and buy the same thing, goodbye.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 21:45 It was close. It was only because I’d invested a reasonable amount of time in, you know, selecting the car and you know, ready to go ahead that, you know, it teetered. Obviously I was almost the same way you were going to respond to it.

 

James Nathan: 22:00 Yeah. And I like what you said there about intent. I think if your business is set to help people and to do a good job for the long term, you end up with a very good business. If you help people make good decisions, which are good for them and also good for you, then everything rolls on nicely.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 22:17 Yeah. I mean, my business model is a repeat business, work mainly with large corporates. So because of the scale, etc, and probably 80 to 90% of my business every year is repeat business from clients that we have an ongoing long term relationship with. You can’t manipulate that.

 

James Nathan: 22:34 When we’ve done the sale and everybody’s happy and you know obviously, then there’s the after-sale process and the service that comes with that. Can you automate that? Is that something that you can put a system behind or do you think it has to be more personal than a standard for everybody?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 22:51 I think it absolutely depends on what sort business you have got. I think that, you know, I would say if you kind of automate and you are comfortable that the automation process works slickly you know, I mean Amazon will be, we’ll be best in class example of, you know, that whole process is automated, and they do it exceptionally well, but obviously we’re talking about a different scale of business. Um, but I think there is, there is an opportunity in a world of automation to still make sure you’re putting a personal touch in there that it makes you different and makes you stand out from your competition. It depends. I’m in a consultancy, you know, consultancy training, speaking kind of business. There’s a lot of personal contact. So you know, the opportunities for me regarding automating that are limited.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 23:44 But yeah, there were definitely, you know, you putting systems and things that help the customer to make sure they get what they want and to, you know, that the payment process is simple and straightforward and you know, just basically making sure that everything is as easy as possible for the customer. Cause you know, my first boss when I went into a proper sales job as in, you know, with a, with a proper company, a big FMCG company. And I was looking after distributors and he basically said to me, you know, the last two days of every month you need to keep clear in your diary because that’s when you go out and get the money. Cause it back in the day was to go around and get cheques, you know, direct debit was in its infancy. That’s how old I am.

 

James Nathan: 24:33 I feel older and older every day, Simon…

 

Simon Hazeldine: 24:36 I remember sort of saying indignantly so I have to go and get the money. And he said, yeah, cause the sale isn’t a sale ’til the money’s in the bank. And I have never, I’ve never forgotten it was a principal. So what you do have to do is make sure your after sales and your delivery is spot on. So, somebody quoted to me years and years ago, some I think Gallop or Moray survey in terms of service and loyalty and then there were the two A’s. But what drove it was the availability of the product or the service or the sales person, you know, you get through on the phone that people who are available and easy to get hold of, and accuracy, what you say will happen, happens. And I think that is increasingly what, you know, people that people want to happen.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 25:24 And you know, we also did an episode for the sales chat show around how difficult are you making it for customers to spend money with you? I think its amazing, sometimes the barriers businesses put between themselves and their customers. Like your example from earlier by, well, if you want to meet us, come and see us, I kind of go, okay, well if your competitor goes, oh, that sounds great. And then so, so should we get a date in the diary to meet up and take this to the next day? Yeah, that’d be fantastic. When would you like me to come and see you? You know who’s going to get the business, you know. And I think there is a principle of, you know, if the customer does come to you that’s a good qualification. It shows they’re interested and then there may be a place for that. You know, you may want them to come and see your premises, see your warehousing, see your logistics function as part of the buying process. And certainly they take the time and trouble to come and see you. I think that’s a very good sign that this is a potentially a good opportunity. However, I think that’s very different to just a default. There’s, you know, come and see us.

 

James Nathan: 26:31 Yeah. And, and certainly that could become a part of the process. You know, after the first conversation or after the first meeting, you know, we’d love for you to come and see our, whatever it might be, if that’s the kind of business you’re running. Ease of use something I talk about a lot at the moment. And it’s a, you know, cause we, we talk about availability and, and action and doing as you say, you’re going to, which is a bugbear of mine, I meant, why wouldn’t you do what you say you’re gonna do, but you know, plenty of businesses don’t. But giving great value and being very easy to work with, especially in a world where, you know, the competition are a click away. You know, the barriers of entry to market are much smaller in lots of industries than they used to be. Just being easy to work with is something that I think people forget.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 27:18 Well, I found out, you know, at that organisation I have a collaborative business relationship with, when we do pitches, we will always do win loss reviews. You know, if you win a business, if you win a piece of business, you ask them why they chose, you know, why they chose you. If you don’t, you’ll get deselected. Um, you know, why didn’t you, what did we do wrong? What wasn’t so good? It’s a pretty painful, pretty painful process, but it’s a very important learning process and it’s amazing how often the comment like you are easy to work with, particularly with repeat business will come out. You know, you just, you, you understand this, you’re easy to work with and you’re kind of thinking, I thought you chose us because of some sexy dynamics. They go, no, you guys are really easy to work with.

 

James Nathan: 28:08 You get on with it and it’s great.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 28:12 Three, I think three times in a row we heard ‘we liked your flexibility’. Literally you hear it the first time you go, Oh we’re flexible. You hear it the second time. And you go, oh, that’s interesting. That’s the second time that’s been said. And then the third time is a very emphatic, you know, you’re far more flexible than the, than the others. You know, your competitors and you thinking, ah, that’s interesting. That’s three times we’ve heard that, which I think leans through to where the world’s going. I saw Neil Rackham, many people know Neil as the author of the very classic book Spin Selling, which is on the first solution consulting. And I’ve had the pleasure of seeing Neil and meeting Neil a couple of times through an organisation called the sales performance association. And he was talking at one session around the gap is widening.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 29:02 And so a continuum of transactional selling over on the left hand side of the continuum across the full customisation across the right hand side. And his view was the middle was disappearing. So business either go transactional, which is kind of the Amazon style online purchasing or people wants full customisation. They don’t just want a bit of a tweak, things customised. And that may be why we here flexibility. The client says, you know, we have a sales process, could you incorporate our sales process within the training you’ll be providing? And kind of go, yes, of course. Yeah, no problem. Well in fact that would be stupid not to, but we are aware of where you’ve had competitors who say, no, we have our, we have our approach, we have our intellectual property and we want to use that. You kind of going, well hang on. Who’s the customer here?

 

James Nathan: 29:55 Yeah, exactly. Oh, I love it. I love it when I come up against people who’ve got a rigid approach, you know, thank God for that. You’re out. You’re out the out the curve. But you also, you mentioned something before which I thought was quite interesting. You said they understand us. Isn’t that the key to a great relationship with the client?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 30:15 100% and it starts right from the first meeting. I think there’s a video on my Youtube channel. You know, the worst question a sales person can ask. It used to be the best question. It’s now the worst question. And the question is, you know, Mr or Mrs Customer, please tell me about your business or please tell me about your organization. NOo, you tell me about it cause, really, you know we’ve got a Wikipedia page, we’ve got a website, you’re coming in going: So, so tell me about your business now. I’m not saying you have to know everything, but…

 

James Nathan: 30:48 It’s so easy, I think we’ve almost gone back to where we started about the ease of research. I remember going to see clients when I was a very young recruiter at a long, long time ago. And I’d phone to London office and get them to print out the Reuters screen and fax the detail to me so I could have look at them. You know, so you just open up a webpage and find out whatever you want, don’t you?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 31:10 Well that approach got me my first big great job in sales, working for Whitbread, a very professional FMCG business. Or they were then, they sold off those bits. And now, now a slightly different business. I went to the local business library before I went for the interview and, and went into Kelly’s business directory and photocopied the profile of it, you know, and halfway through the first interview, this really tough, gritty sales director was out, you know, quite high confrontational style of interview, you know. And he said, so what do you know about us? You know, I reeled off this stuff for about a minute or two. And he said, you seem to know a lot about us. And I’ve got my folder with me. And I got it out. And I started putting the paper on the desk in front of him and I said, I’ve been to the library and I’ve done my research, you know, and this is what I know about you. That’s why I’m serious about coming to work for you. And I’ve been to talk to some of your customers about, you know, I’ve been to some local outlets and ask them a few questions and he went very interesting. You said you’ll be hearing from us. You know, I’m not as just a lucky, I guess just, I’m just so fortunate I thought of doing it. You know.

 

James Nathan: 32:23 Oh I don’t know. I think thinking about your client and taking the effort makes a big difference, doesn’t it? And taking, you know, you’re going into a library is a hell of an effort.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 32:33 Yeah. I mean back in the day, you know, that was kind of, if you wanted to find something out, that’s what you did. Now you know, and then now there is just a zero excuse. Sorry. You know? It’s just not acceptable. And I have never, when we do key account management workshops or sales strategy workshops or whatever, and we get people to do live research on their clients, they always, we give them an hour. They always discover a ton of stuff they didn’t know and they always discover one or two or more things to go in and have a sales conversation around that might be a sales opportunity. So, you know, do your research, do your research.

 

James Nathan: 33:13 Perfect spot to, to finish the conversation. Simon. I’m afraid we’re running out of time. But thank you so much. So many great thoughts there. How do people get in touch with you Simon, what’s the best way? And obviously please don’t forget to mention your podcast and how they get to listen to that.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 33:29 Yeah, sure. So, so my main website is www.simonhazeldine.com. It’s pronounced deen phonetically, but it’s spelled d I n e.com. And then my email address is simon@simonhaxeldine.com also on Twitter @simonhazeldine and people find me on linkedin. And Yeah, our podcast that I do with Graham Jones and Phil Jepson is Sales Chat Show, saleschatshow.com. We recorded our hundredth episode, last week. So there’s a pretty big library of past episodes we cover all sort of stuff on sales, sales management, sales leadership, etc.

 

James Nathan: 34:14 Fabulous. And one last thought, Simon, what’s the golden nugget? The one thing you’d like to leave people with, a thought for the listeners to go and do something better in their business today?

 

Simon Hazeldine: 34:24 Yeah, I think I’ve already mentioned it, is do what you say you’re going to do when you say you’re going to do it, and so if you say, I’m going to give you a call back at four o’clock and if you haven’t got the information, still give them a call back at four o’clock and say, Hey James, I said I would give you a call at four I’m still waiting to get hold of the information. I just wanted to let you know we’re still working on it. Give them that sense of certainty and comfort and that’s also how you build your reputation.

 

James Nathan: 34:51 Fabulous. Simon, thank you so, so much. It’s been great chatting to you,

 

Simon Hazeldine: 34:56 My pleasure. The pair of us coughing and spluttering. Apologies to your listeners for that.

 

James Nathan: 35:05 Well, I hope you feel better Simon, and talk to you very soon.

 

Simon Hazeldine: 35:08 Yeah. Excellent. Thanks a lot. Cheers. Bye. Bye.