Ep4 – The Thoughtful Leader Edition with Mindy Gibbins-Klein

James Nathan: 00:06 Hello and welcome to The Only One Business show with me, your host James Nathan. Today I have the most fantastic guest for you. She’s an international speaker and executive coach specialising in turning experts into thought leaders and published authors. She’s authored and coauthored nine books including 24 Carrot Bold, which Seth Gordon said, “this is the first thoughtful book I’ve seen on what it means to become a thought leader, practical and inspiring at the same time.” What an accolade that is. Her latest book, “The Thought Leader” challenges leaders to become more thoughtful in all sensors of the word. Native to New York, she currently resides in the UK where she operates two businesses. She’s the founder and Chief Exec of the Book Midwife, an elite book coaching company and Panoma Press, a cooperative publisher of business and personal development books. Her Tedx talk entitled “Sometimes you need to change yourself to be yourself” has hit nearly half a million views.

 

James Nathan: 01:53 Wow. And it showcases her passion for helping people from all underrepresented groups to become leaders and for all people to approach life more thoughtfully. She has an enviable list of more than 700 published clients who have become real thought leaders and successful authors. She’s been an international speaker for 25 years and presented to and coached over 50,000 business executives and entrepreneurs in 18 countries on creating powerful content and thought leadership. Her own, online and offline content has been syndicated, licensed and showcased worldwide. As a regular media contributor. She’s featured over a hundred times in national and specialist’s press, radio, television over the past 10 years. She is a regular contributor to the Huffington Post as well as executive media in several countries. Please welcome Mindy Gibbons-Klein. Mindy. Hi, how are you?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 02:51 I’m great James. That was really fascinating. You know, I love to hear about myself and thank you so much for giving the opportunity.

 

James Nathan: 03:02 Do you know what, it’s funny when you sit and someone reads an intro about you and you think, I’m not bad am I, I’m pretty good really. Mindy are you in Britain or the States at the moment. I know you are you doing something in New York soon?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 03:16 Yeah, I’m back and forth, back and forth. So I am, as the listeners are listening to us live, I am in New York, I believe. Every month I’m in both countries as well as usually one or two others.

 

James Nathan: 03:34 And you were telling me before we came on air that you’ve been jet setting a bit recently cause you had a big wedding anniversary, which is amazing in Barbados. And then you were previously at Disney? Is that the right way around?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 03:47 Yeah, but not on the same trip. Those trips are separated by about 20 years.

 

James Nathan: 03:54 Oh right. Okay. Cause you said your son was dancing in a show there?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 03:57 Oh, you’re right. That was two years ago, I think. You’re right. He was in Disneyland, Paris.

 

James Nathan: 04:03 Fantastic. Wonderful. Look, it’s really great to have you here and thanks for taking the time out because I know how busy you are. Mindy, what’s a thought leader? When when someone says to you, you know, I’m a thought leader, what does that really mean?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 04:15 Well, first of all, our clients are trained never to utter that phrase and I would encourage and urge the listeners never to use that phrase, I am a thought leader. I mean how naff is that? Right? So what we really hope is that if you do the work and you get your thought leadership…. Your best content out there, your best books, your best keynotes and videos and podcasts, then others will start calling you a thought leader. What it means is you have something unique and different and interesting and original and exciting to say. That’s all it means.

 

James Nathan: 04:52 Ah, fantastic. Cause I’ve got a little bee in my bonnet about entrepreneurship, and people calling themselves an entrepreneur and I think it’s actually something that someone says about you, not that you say about yourself and I guess that’s where you’re coming from. Once you’re out there, you know, people will look at you and say, wow, this person really is….. You know, I’m enjoying listening to them. I’m enjoying reading what they’re doing. They’re helping me.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 05:14 Yeah.

 

James Nathan: 05:15 Okay. And so how does the book part of that fit in, cause that must be a major, major piece.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 05:21 Well, yes. A lot of people have been told write a book and you’ll be a thought leader and that may or may not be true and it may or may not happen like that. What I’ve found through 17 years of running the Book Midwife is if you put together your best material into your best book, a truthful leading book that saying something new and different, then you do gain a lot more traction. So thought leadership is a lot more than a book. If somebody works with us on our thought leadership strategy programs, they ended up getting complete clarity on their messaging and content for all their stuff. However, the book is at the hub of a good thought leadership strategy. And I would say that if you try to be a thought leader without a hard hitting thought leading book, you’re going to work a lot harder. You can do it, but a great book just gives that focus to your audience.

 

James Nathan: 06:22 Okay. So I meet a lot of people who would say, oh, I’ve got a book in me or it can’t be that hard. You know, having, having published one and working on another one myself at the moment, I know that’s not the case. It is a lot of hard work. Typically, how much work is putting a book together?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 06:38 Well, typically people spend about 200 hours doing everything that it takes to bring the book to the market. And you know, that’s fine, but in our programs, people do it in 100 hours. Not only that, but typically people take six, nine, 12 months, two years or more to put those 200 hours in. So they spread it over a long time. Whereas our programs offer 90 days guaranteed to have your best book done and you will have spent a hundred hours. So you know, it does make it a lot easier. Of course, if you haven’t got any help, if you’re not on a program, if you’re not getting any guidance, if you’re just guessing, if you’re doing DIY on the whole thing, yes, it’s hard. It’s hard. I’ve watched your progress and you know, and you are amazing and inspirational, but I can’t tell you how many times James, I thought, I wish I could intervene here, but never mind.

 

James Nathan: 07:40 Mindy, after we go off air we will talk about that. I have never ever stopped looking for help and never stopped looking to learn. You can bumble along a lot. And you know, like everybody, I think I’ve made as many mistakes as the rest of us, but it’s always nice when someone says woe, stop that.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 07:57 Yeah, no, it’s fine. It’s great to have confidence in what you’re doing. But you know, a book…. Can I just say one more thing about books since you asked a lot of people see a book as a marketing tool, and it can be one, but a thought leading book is a lot more than that. So if you, let’s just say you relegate the book to that kind of level and you say, oh, the book is just a marketing tool. Then it’s gonna come out like that and it will appear as just a marketing tool. Whereas working with thought leadership and books together, make sure that the book really does showcase your best thought leadership. It’s, you know, when we want to be spiritual, I say to people, it’s a sacred part of you that’s going out into the world. And there’s a lot of people who don’t subscribe to that. They just want to slap something together. Anything. And there’s unfortunately, people out there who are saying, just put anything together, speak to a dictaphone, we’ll get it transcribed in another country, voila, there’s a book. Yes, it’s a book. But, as you can tell, I’m passionate about people putting their best stuff out there because it reflects on us, doesn’t it?

 

James Nathan: 09:08 Oh, absolutely. And you want people to read the thing.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 09:12 And you want them to feel blessed when they do?

 

James Nathan: 09:14 Yeah. Well, I mean anyone can self publish any old nonsense, but you know, the amount of time and effort that goes in, you’d think it’d be better probably to produce something decent that does something for you. How, I mean obviously, you know, being a thought leader or pushing yourself in that direction, it’s fabulous personally. How does it affect your business?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 09:33 So most people who we meet, you know, in our program coaching, they are, entrepreneurs, already used the word, but yeah, they’ve started the business or they’re a professional in corporate, typically they’ve started something. So, some people say, well, you are the business and that’s not necessarily true because if you are the business as you know, you can’t then sell it at some point. So to leave complete flexibility, we like to make the business owner or founder into a thought leader and then the business can do what it needs to do. Obviously if a business is being run by a thought leader, then it’s going to have a better impression on the market, shall we say. It’s so you, you do gain in both areas. But I would caution people not to tie them together too closely and make sure that you as a person, be it entrepreneur or business owner, expert, whatever you want to call yourself, that you have your own identity and brand separate from any and all of your businesses. I’m running four brands at the moment. I push back when people say Mindy is the Book Midwife. That’s not true because the Book Midwife is a brand. It’s a global trademarked brand. It’s a movement. It’s a, you know, a, an award winning program. So how can I be the midwife? I’m the founder.

 

James Nathan: 11:01 Sure. Of course. I think that, you know, there’s a big distinction there which is quite interesting that you’ve, you’ve talked about. When people come through the program, obviously it’s a, you know, they started at a point with an idea and they end up with a product at the end. Have you got some examples of businesses where it’s really changed what they’ve done or has really driven them forward after completing things?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 11:24 Absolutely. We, so I’ve personally worked with a thousand clients over 17 years and many of them I have done one-to-one work because over 17 years I’ve been able to do a lot. I’ve done group programs as well, but the ones that I, you know, really know intimately and what they’ve done with their business, well that’s not true actually. All of our published authors come on a monthly Webinar with me or they’re invited to. And so I do hear about what they’re doing, a lot of success stories. There’s a lady called Catherine Lovewell who, put her book together on one of my group programs and the book is Every Teacher Matters. Now who doesn’t know a teacher who’s stressed and it’s unfortunately a sign of the times and this is her expertise and she’s gone on and on to do so many great things. And in the couple of years after the book came out, she was invited to speak for, I think it was Google and Microsoft, she was speaking in Australia, Ireland, Wales all over the place. And it really, really raised her profile because she put time and effort in to doing that type of book. A really impressive book. And I think you know Simon Zutshi who we speak about. [beeping noise] Yes. Let’s turn Outlook off……

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 12:41 Sorry about that. So Simon Zutshi, I like speaking about him because he’s a nice guy as well as being an expert in property. I don’t know if you know him, but we’ve done nine property books. Nine property books and his has been the kind of forerunner of this category for us because we’re now in the 10th year of publication. So he and I worked together 1, nearly 12 years ago to put together, he did the coaching program and then when the book came out, it’s just sold and sold and sold. And it’s been in the top 10 for all 10 years. We’re in the sixth edition and he and I have just calculated that we’ve shifted over 200,000 copies of that book in 10 years. I’m including ebook versions and audio, but I mean, that most business people don’t even sell 2000 copies of their book in its lifetime.

 

James Nathan: 13:38 No, no, no, not at all. That’s a huge number. You mentioned ebooks, and audio, but surely that’s a massively growing category that especially the audio side….

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 13:46 It is. And I would encourage and urge the listeners to think of the book as the book and all of those formats as formats. So the reason why I’m being specifically pedantic about this is people will think, well, I’ll just do an audio book or I’ll just do the ebook because they’re thinking it’s faster, cheaper, easier, whatever. Yes. And who has been impressed by some thought leadership that’s just from an ebook or, you know, a report, a special report or something. You know, it’s very, very difficult to get the same level of recognition if you don’t do the hard hitting, good quality book in print. You know this because you’ve done a book in print and people who only do an ebook are missing out tremendously.

 

James Nathan: 14:33 Yeah. I mean, I absolutely agree with you and I’m, I’m a funny person. I listen to a lot of books, I travel a lot and so I find audiobooks fabulous. But then I will very, very often buy the hard copy. Once I’ve listened, you know, a novel doesn’t matter, but I like to go back to business books. I like to reread, I like to, you know, scribble on them…..

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 14:51 highlight them….

 

James Nathan: 14:52 It’s a physical thing for me. So, you know, I, end up giving people a lot more money cause I buy both.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 14:59 Yeah. Okay. This is what we’d like. We publishers like that. I think to answer the question, I know the question you are answering and not my soapbox answer, but the question is, you know, is it a growing trend, et cetera. Yes. And the main reason for bringing out your book in multiple formats is to give your market the choice because there’s people like James who really want to listen to the audio version. My husband listens to audio books, some good friends of mine…. I don’t happen to. So I need the print book. And I would say do all the formats for every book that you do and that way you’re not missing out and your market is not missing out.

 

James Nathan: 15:40 Absolutely. Very good advice as well. And I talk a lot about service and excellence. How does, how does producing a really good quality book affect the service for your business?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 15:53 So, our authors are coached to use their books in specific ways. And I’m sure most of the listeners and yourself have heard of most of these things, but the focus is on making sure that you give a copy of that book away to anybody who you’re trying to talk to, speak form influence, sell to, partner with. And that book goes ahead of you. What we find is that, you know, instead of being in your face and having a 45 minute sales conversation or you know, trying to close the deal over coffee, you let the book do the work for you. So if you’ve done your job and put together, you know your best ideas and you’ve got tremendous value in the book, they can read the book at their leisure. They don’t feel pressurized, you’re not there staring them down. So they get to take their time with you, usually on average five or six hours of their life.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 16:48 If they keep reading is spent getting to know you, your ideas, your content and your thought leadership. And then what happens is kind of amazing. They call you. And there’s a much different dynamic in the relationship. You are actually serving that customer or that client or partner by allowing them to read and think and decide and buy. So they’re buying and they’re coming in a completely different energy. They don’t feel defensive like you’re selling to them. And that is, it’s a service. It’s also a service if I might say, to showcase what you know and to put forward really radical ideas. I had a client on the phone yesterday who’s saying something really groundbreaking and like to the point where I had goosebumps and I thought, boy, I said, are you okay if people lash back because you know this is going to stir things up?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 17:45 He said, absolutely because he has something important to say and it’s coming from his point of view. I’m excited about it. Kind of scared as well. But what you’re doing is you are doing a service for the market and for the person who’s trying to decide, because as we know, it’s a noisy, crowded world out there and you go online and there’s so many people spending time and money and doing clever SEO and that. So if you Google something, you know, where do I find, you know, the best customer service trainer and you get inundated, so you’re actually doing someone a service. When you put forward your thought leadership in a good book that helps them select the best quality product or service. It’s a bit cheeky that answer, but I think it really is a service because you, you help them save hundreds of hours of, you know, waiting through all of that other stuff. Right?

 

James Nathan: 18:37 Absolutely. I mean, I love that idea. I’m very keen on personalization and humanization of businesses and letting people see the real you. I know I’m interviewing somebody for this show in a few weeks time. Who’s PA got in touch with me and said, have you got the books? And I said, I’ve got a couple of them. And so a package arrived this week with five books. Wow, that’s fantastic. And not only am I delighted to receive the present, which, you know, just feels nice and books are a lovely gift. But then I can sit and really get into, into the mindset beforehand, which is even nicer. So I, completely, completely buy into what you’re saying. I think it sounds like an almost no brainer for someone who’s gone to all the effort of putting that, that book together. I know you talk a lot about and….. your TEDx talk, a lot about helping underrepresented groups and um, I have a very big passion for helping people, particularly in business with mental health and changing the stigma attached to mental health in the workplace. What has that TEDx done for you? How’s that changed your life and what you do in your day?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 19:46 So, it’s allowed me to speak on a related topic because you know, what you can find is if you become an expert, you get asked over and over again more and more to do the same content and you get known for that, which is great. But you know, we’re all multifaceted human beings and we all have different interests and different ideas and different passions. So in my case, it’s allowed me to expand and I’ve bridged the two. So I talk about thought leadership, but thought leadership representing our society or reflecting our society in, you know, a fairer way. And this has allowed people to call me and contact me after my talks and say they feel safe. They want to actually have a chat. They didn’t feel anybody would be interested in listening to them and their book ideas. And I’m delighted.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 20:39 I mean, we have more disabled people, more people from all other groups coming through and having the discussion about getting their books written and published. Because I think if they don’t see those role models out there, and if they don’t, you know, if they’re not reading books and hearing things that are coming from people like them or people they can relate to, then they just think they can’t aspire to that. They think, well, if there’s no female disabled, autistic, you know, whatever a person for me to model and they get a bit depressed and then they think, well I guess I’m not going to become a leader in the, in the space. I mean it’s, it’s kind of subconscious, but that is something that has to change. So you know, I totally appreciate and love my middle aged white male leader friends and yet we really need to have some other representation, especially in business and personal development books so that people get the sense that they are being seen and heard as well.

 

James Nathan: 21:43 I think we’re living in an interesting time at the moment and you know, you look at history and you think it wouldn’t have been lovely to be around when certain things happened. I think the change in people’s perception of others and the acceptance of difference that the world is changing through at the moment I think is wonderful and it’s great to be able to see people just being themselves and getting on with it. You know, it also always perks me enormously when I see other countries sort of putting goals in place, which are, you know, yeah….. So, that change that is happening at the moment, it means that everybody can be who they are. And it makes the world a richer place. There’s lots and lots of talk about diversity all the time.

 

James Nathan: 22:21 To me, diversity is much more about thought differences as well as, as physical. Physical difference is something that, you know, will disappear. If I look at my children, I don’t know yours a little bit older than mine Mindy, but you know, they’re 10 and 12 and you know, my nephew is as mildly disabled. He has limp and stuff and, and when I mentioned it to my daughter, she hadn’t noticed. That’s really cool. And I think that, you know, as the world becomes more accepting, then we end up with not only a better world, but a stronger world. And then we ended up with leadership of people who previously wouldn’t have had the opportunity. I think that that’s something that, you know, when you’re able to help them put that into print and bring their mind out into the world, everything becomes a whole lot better.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 23:07 Yeah. Well, you know, look, I’m blessed with white privilege. I’m blessed with being in the middle class. I totally appreciate the advantages and opportunities that I’ve been given and I’m aiming to give back, you know, without losing everything and losing my home, but sharing, listen, sharing the wealth. One of the obvious ways in which I saw I could do that was to do that talk and focus on people being more accepting of others. But also, I don’t know if you’ve seen that Panoma Press, our publishing company made a very public and very bold declaration on January 8th that 80% of our books this year will be by authors of underrepresented groups. So yeah, that means women, black and minority, ethnic disabled people, LGBTQ community, and anybody else who feels that left to chance, they’re not given a fair chance.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 24:05 And that is the difference. If you feel that you’re marginalized and that you don’t have a fair chance and it’s not a level playing field, then investigate who is actually being proactive. I mean, we have, we have a program, we have an initiative, a mission, and a declared goal as well as subsidies for these authors to give them help. And this is, this has totally changed things. It was a bit bold and people in my family said, or do you want to do that because you know, you might alienate others. I said, I don’t care because it’s the right thing to do and it needs to be done and I’m not going to apologize for doing what’s right.

 

James Nathan: 24:42 Mindy if I could clap online I’d be clapping the hell out of you. An open door is a wonderful thing and acceptance is incredible. And I think that’s…. I don’t think that’s a bold statement or bold move. I think that’s an important and a really great thing and I wish you huge success with it. I can’t imagine how that could be anything but positive.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 25:01 Aw, thank you.

 

James Nathan: 25:03 So when you talk about underrepresented groups, obviously there’s the, there’s the very obvious, you know, areas are they, are they groups which are so underrepresented, we don’t even know they exist?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 25:17 Well, this is what I think, everything I say of course is just my belief. But we have included in our discussions with people and the media, millennials because they’re often maligned as, oh, you know, they’re flakey, snowflakey whatever. Older people who are dismissed out of hand from ageism, disabled people who are also veterans, people who have served our country, who have now landed on hard times or haven’t had the support or they had undiagnosed PTSD or any number of things or combination of things. And they are not being heard and they’re not being seen and they don’t have the confidence to, you know, even do the basic things, much less become speakers and authors and you know, that that’s just a real shame. I want to support anybody who feels they’re not being given a fair chance and they have something to say.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 26:08 And in some cases, you know, James, it requires bringing them to that point because they, they’re so under-confident that they don’t even feel they have anything to say or they’re capable of adding anything of value. And that I feel is one of my gifts, is just from, you know, my career has been 50% coaching and 50% marketing through my whole life through 35 years of working. That’s where I feel I can add something to show them and coach them to market themselves. T hat’s so important. And you know, once they feel confident and they start producing, their thought leadership, their thought leading content, then we’d have something to publish or, you know, a speaker for your podcast or, you know, I’m going to be looking out for interesting people for you as well.

 

James Nathan: 26:58 Thank you. That’d be wonderful. You touched a little nerve with me there or you sparked a mindset, I guess around, veterans and PTSD and things. My family were, holocaust survivors. My grandmother went through Auschwitz and my grandfather was in Siberia. And, you know, the stories that you hear from times like that, are very limited because a lot of those people didn’t want to talk about those things. I know, you know, talking to friends in Australia where I’m from, whose grandparents fought in wars, never really spoke about the hardships and the things that they went through. And I think, you know, it’s a shame almost at a lot of that is lost. And I hope that, you know, these people who are still alive to recount stories do so because it’s better for us to understand the past, but also then we have some kind of understanding of who they are and why they are, how they became. That’s kind of getting lost.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 27:53 And I’m happy to be a part of that. And I’m also conscious, I’m always conscious of not forcing anybody to step up and be in the spotlight. You know, it’s not about that. It’s about somebody who has that kind of kernel of interest, that spark, but then they dump it down immediately with something that’s coming from fear or self doubt or conditioning that….. people who look like me are never blah, blah blah. And you know, that’s interesting. To catch somebody and recognize that actually they do have potential and they would like to, so people are always saying, oh, Mindy, you know, when you’re speaking to groups or you’re trying to convince them to write a book, I say, absolutely not. No Way. What I’m looking to do is find that person who, and, and the book is a metaphor of course.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 28:46 So I’m saying, you know, do they want to be writing and speaking, et Cetera, but you know, they want to do it. Like they have the spark, they have the interest, they’d love to do it. It’s on their bucket list. It’s yet, but they are at risk of never doing it or taking too long or getting into a muddle or getting to the end and not being sure about it or not being willing to publish it. Or it’s, there’s so many ridiculous ways in which we stop ourselves and sabotage ourselves. That’s for another podcast,

 

James Nathan: 29:16 Absolutely, that’s a good conversation to have as well. How does somebody…… At what point does someone say to themselves, do you know what? I should give Mindy a call.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 29:25 As early as possible. So here’s where I get to be a bit vulnerable and say, I kind of screwed up with our brand name. So the Book Midwife is very clever because we pull the book out of someone. However, if you think about it, the midwife comes in at the end when you’ve already conceived, carried that baby for nine months. She, you know, enters the room and, and delivers…..

 

James Nathan: 29:51 They are not there at the beginning. Thankfully,

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 29:54 Normally she’s not there in the bed with you, et cetera. But I would say that the services that we offer is also a fertility clinic. If you want to use metaphor. What that means is a lot of people contact us and they say, yes, but I don’t really know what I’m going to write about. Perfect. I don’t really know if I know enough. Perfect. I will show you that you do. I don’t really know how I’m going to put it together and how I’m going to, how, you know, and they make all these obstacles and let’s chat. I’m always saying to people, look, it’s always worth a chat. It’s worth a chat. It doesn’t cost anything except a little time. And I create a lot of time in my calendar every week to chat with people. I’ve had about 10 chats this week from getting back from Barbados and you know, I’m like, yeah, chill man. You know…..

 

James Nathan: 30:45 Caribbean vibe.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 30:47 I’ve still brought some back with me. Yes. But what I really want to do is help people open up. They think they have to shut down. They think they have to narrow down their ideas. They think they have to put together, you know, their first draft and then contact us or you know, don’t even have to, in fact, they shouldn’t figure out an outline and a structure. And because that’s what we do together. It’s very difficult for me to explain that because you don’t find that most places, most people think, well, let me write my book and then I’ll find somebody to tell me if it’s any good…. Too late. We don’t even do that service because it’s the wrong way to go.

 

James Nathan: 31:26 Okay. Oh fantastic. Well, it’s been absolutely fascinating chatting with you and now I think we could go on for hours. How do people get in touch with you Mindy? What’s the best way for them to do that?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 31:39 Okay, so I have so many websites, Twitter IDs, Facebook pages, linkedin, Instagram. The best thing of course is to go to bookmidwife.com and Book Midwife is also one of my bestselling Twitter IDs if you want to call that and more successful. Also mindygk.com now, is supposed to be our umbrella site, which has all my books and speaking and things like that. It’s about me, which you know, I hate having it be about me, but if you want to contact me, MindyGK on Twitter or, yeah, the website.

 

James Nathan: 32:15 I’ll pop the links in the notes for people as well. Maybe before we go, I’d love you to leave a thought. What’s that golden nugget, that one thing that you’d like to leave people with that they could do to make their businesses better today?

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 32:29 Okay. This is a nugget from my latest book, The Thoughtful Leader, which is almost four years old now. And, and yet I think it’s the thing that we all need to practice and that is, make sure you’re aware of your influences and your influencers and be aware that you are capable of choosing those influences and influencers. And the reason why I say this is we are subjected to so much spam, actual advertising, things that people have crafted very carefully. It’s just been, we’re being bombarded with people’s messages or trying to influence us in different ways. Even when I, if you go to a conference, just stay, stay true to yourself, stay in a little bubble and don’t immediately start nodding at things that people are saying from the stage. When you read a book, Don’t take that as gospel. I just find so many people are being led and easily led and it, we don’t need to. We’re all individuals. That’s my message. You are capable of making your own decisions, taking in all of that influence from everywhere and actually reflecting and deciding what it is that you think and you believe, and then you can actually produce thought leadership. You can be more thoughtful. You could just be happier.

 

James Nathan: 33:53 Wonderful. Mindy, thank you so much. That’s a superb way to finish the show off. Thanks so much for your time and it’s been great chatting with you.

 

Mindy Gibbons-K: 34:01 Thank you for having me. It’s been a delight.