Ep8 – The Own Your Career and Life Edition with Adrian Evans
James chats with Adrian Evans a career manager who enables his individual and private clients to reach premium earnings and reward. The last 5 are 40% increases!
Adrian is the author of a ‘Be a Job Magnet’ – a bestselling book on how to access the ‘hidden’ job market and is absolutely passionate at enabling individuals to own their career, to ensure they ‘unlock’ their talent to be in control of their lives.
They discuss education in an ever changing world, ever-green needs, Michel Roux, how to respond when stuff goes wrong and hiring diner suits.
Adrian’s Podcast: Enterprise Sales Club
James Nathan: 00:00 Welcome to the Only One Business Show with me, your host, James Nathan, and in the studio today I’ve got a fantastic guest for you, a really good guy, and a good friend of mine as well, which you said, which is always lovely to to tell you. He’s a career manager who enables his individual and private client to reach premium earnings and reward. The last five increased by 40%. 40. He is the author of The Job Magnet, which is a bestselling book on how to access the hidden job market. And he’s passionate about enabling individuals to own their careers, to ensure they unlock their talent, to be in control of their lives. And you sent me a great quote. It says, the illiterate of the 21st century won’t be those who can’t read and write, but those who can’t learn, unlearn and relearn. I absolutely love that. Please welcome Adrian Evans. Adrian, how are you?
Adrian Evans: 01:49 I’m really well James and real privilege to be here today and thank you very much for inviting me today. I really want to thank you.
James Nathan: 01:54 Yeah, look, I know how busy you are. So it’s a real treat for me to get some, some of your time as well. Alan Toffler that’s a great quote. Where’d you find that one?
Adrian Evans: 02:03 Well, it’s actually interesting what I was, I’m researching my book. And it is true to write one book you’ve probably beaten, you need to read 180. I should read it and keep it, but it just seemed to capsulate the world that we’re in. You know, I’m a bit of an obsessive learner anyway and just a little bit of as to why that is…. You know, to me it’s your insurance proof of an ever changing world. You know, we’re entering the fourth industrial revolution and I was only watching interesting programme of the day on the Open University and they were talking about is that, you know, there’s certain systems, especially our education system, it’s broken. It’s not ready. The agile ever learning world we need to in the world. And I just thought that was a beautiful quote. I wish I’d created that one myself. But the truth is to challenge what we’ve already learned. And in some cases, unlearn it and then say what’s fit for purpose for the career I tomorrow that I want to take forward and actually have a fulfilling life, et cetera, particularly true for children, you know, I’m a father of two, just like yourself. And they’re really keen to make sure they’re, they’re set up for success in their lives. And I think having that adaptive learning approach like that is key.
James Nathan: 03:18 It’s interesting though, isn’t it? Because obviously we are, kids are similar ages and in high school now, you know, my boy’s just got into high school this year and my daughter’s going to do that in a year or two’s time, but the way that they’re taught, I can see such change from the way that I was taught. But you think there’s a long way to go.
Adrian Evans: 03:37 Yeah. I don’t want this to turn into a rant, for me, I gave my kids a real challenge when they were both sort of five and seven. And I remember being in the car one day, coming back from cricket practice. And I said to them, there’s one challenge I’d love you to have in your world, which is what is most important to you that you need to learn? So in other words, what are you passionate about? What are you purposeful about, et cetera. And then asked yourself the question, how do you learn? How do you learn best? And what I was challenging them to do is almost get them ready for the school system. Now I’ve got two very different children. I’ve got a fair to say pretty bright, academically son, he pass the 11 plus. And give an example. We only went out the other day for dinner for his birthday and his two mates would like, they call themselves the key knows. Yup. And they’re singing the periodic table as we’re having pizza. You get the flavour. That wasn’t me as a kid, but that’s them.
James Nathan: 04:36 They’re the pulsating brains and I used look at it and think, I’ve got actually don’t understand what goes on in your head you’re so bright.
Adrian Evans: 04:43 Yeah, exactly. That’s it, and then I’ve got a very determined daughter who isn’t as academically strong, but you know, I joke she’s a leader. She’s already, she’s social glue. People magnetize towards her because you such a great, empathetic, warm individual.
James Nathan: 04:57 Right. Right. So a bit more like you then.
Adrian Evans: 05:00 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. But that means, you know Matthew can learn by rote, he could absorb a book. You know, we bought him a couple of books here that day. They’re just devoured in, you know, how about an hour or two or whatever. And then he can write a great précis on that in great english and all that. Amelia, she’s got to live it. She’s got to live it, feel it. She’s got to be…. Whats the purpose Dad? What will this do for people? So if I’m going to do it and the best thing she can, and she’s a brilliant coach. She a big hockey player, but she, she coaches younger children, particularly the under eights, and she like transferring knowledge. So for her, if she can get some knowledge, almost the first thing she wants to do with that is who else can I pass this onto?
Adrian Evans: 05:40 And I remember one day when she was younger and there was a lad, he was really struggling to get all sort of worked up cause he didn’t know what 12 times 12 was. And she said, Ned, that’s no problem. It’s a 144 mate. Don’t worry. That’s fine. She’s not holder of knowledge. So therefore we need to be adapted. You know, people, often children we do et cetera. And the quicker you can learn how you learn best. And I know podcasts, that’s why we’re so into them, I suppose our audiences love podcasts because you can put them in. The only problem I think with podcasts is they can be a bit passive, bit like watching TV should make them purposeful. We have have a purpose that listening to them. So that’s why I’m so passionate about this because if you’re not learning, the truth is you’re getting left behind in this world.
James Nathan: 06:23 And so these guys that you’ve made to get such enormous increases in package or salary or however, what’s the difference with those? Because obviously there’s a talent that you bring to help them achieve those results, but there’s also got to be an innate position with for them in the first place that they’re worth that. What’s the difference with people who can, who can achieve that kind of kind of jump?
Adrian Evans: 06:48 Okay. Okay. So let’s, let’s clarify. First of all I’ve got a pretty narrow niche of who I focus on. So I mainly focus either with very ambitious enterprise sales professionals, so people who were selling top end technology and already very successful at what they do or finance directors or CFO. So it’s quite a discerning marketplace. I’m already in. However, what all of my clients typically are, their competence is higher than their confidence. Okay. So that’s the delta. So you add my methodology, how to ask, well, first of all, let’s break those systems down. So first of all, given…. Shit, let’s go back. This is supply and demand, sorry if it is for me… Organizations that are shareholder value, they will drive down, the best bargain they possibly can with employees. That is a fact.
Adrian Evans: 07:39 And being ex-headhunters ourselves, we know, we know that game. Yeah. So if you start from that premise and then typically an employee is very focused on doing his job or her job. They’re not focused on maximizing their income even in enterprise sales. Okay. And when you then bring a methodology to that, but the first thing you bring to that is what value do you provide to this organization? And many of my clients are not just very good individual contributions. They’re very good at adding value to teams. They’re very good adding and passing business onto other people, stepped it up systems that are scalable, et cetera. So when you add up all this, this is a big old number that adds up seven, seven figures plus. So when they ask for 20k more, 30k more, 40k and they’re very proactive about it and they’re very accurate about how they ask for as well.
Adrian Evans: 08:29 My role is to get people to be appropriately rewarded. Yup. That’s the process we actually go through took to make that worth. And you know, I always joke and I could never, for instance, have a client whose confidence is much higher than their competence. It probably wouldn’t sit with my values, not don’t want to get political about it, but some like Boris Johnson, you know, confidence is way higher than his competence. Yup. I probably can help somebody…. I could help you skills actually, but joking….. So that’s what I’m at. So I love working with my clients like that cause they usually display huge ambition but a great level of humility and that really works well for me. It’s a privilege to work with them.
James Nathan: 09:07 That’s an interesting kind of mixing business, isn’t it? Because those are the people I guess that most of us would enjoy working with much more than the overly confident.
Adrian Evans: 09:18 Indeed. Absolutely. And we all come across this and we’re ex-headhunters and we worked for a very confident business previously. But a lot of that is, it’s always…. And I think if you can get, it’s like each one of these things going back to the negotiation, I think if you could find a place where competence and confidence meets, it’s a great place to be. And also, for me being over rewarded you know…. Overselling yourself is as bad as underselling yourself. I think it’s a real tightrope of how to negotiate. And the sad truth is you don’t get paid what you’re worth. You get paid what you negotiate. And that is all the way through my head hunting days, et cetera, et cetera. That is what I realized and I love adding value because of what that could mean to certain people, their families, the difference it makes in their lives, but it’s already for reward that they should be receiving anyway. So I don’t see it as any, any big thing.
James Nathan: 10:13 Yeah. So it’s helping people achieve what they worth, which is a great thing. You mentioned an ever changing world before and how that links to education. What makes a good business person in this world? What do they need to be to be successful?
Adrian Evans: 10:29 For me, I’ll sum that up in threes. I like breaking things down into threes. I think for me you need to be aware and be solving an evergreen problem on a daily basis. I think for me the next piece is, and we’re going to talk about customer service undoubtedly, but you have to be obsessed with customer service. You have to be constantly trying to get better at that, for me. And the other one then is adaption. So solving an evergreen problem with exceptional customer service that’s been appropriately paid for and constantly adapting. And I’m questioning those are the three things. You know, a good example for me, one of my mentors, 70 odd years of age, sold a great professional services business out for many millions, many years ago. And I remember I asked him a question even when he was in his sixties and I said to him one, why you working? Cause he didn’t need to financially and how do you learn? Okay. And he said to me, I learn from anyone and everyone every day and I will implement that into the next client interaction I have as soon as possible. And I remember at the time thinking, Jesus, no wonder you’re successful with that.
James Nathan: 11:45 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So when you look at people like that and then you look forward and you think, right, okay. So by the time in the workforce, he’s got, what, 10 years to go ’til he goes through higher education and what have you, how will that be different then?
Adrian Evans: 12:02 Well for me, I think whilst things are changing, I think things are things that things are ever staying in the same. And I think I go back to this as well is I personally have a conviction, I did say this to the kids the other day is, but typically in Britain….is if you service very well an evergreen need, okay. Valuable to people’s lives, to their careers, et cetera. One, you’ll always have a job and probably you’ll always have a business. Okay, so for me, what are those evergreen needs that people always actually have and how do you do them? And then how do we put that service component? Because I think for me…. I asked all of my clients recently when was the last time you had exceptional customer service? And first of all…. and normally, they’re very, very responsive at coming back on stuff.
Adrian Evans: 12:52 Yup. Yup. I got a list of people, et cetera, list of organizations, but I just got another questions. Oh, well what would you mean? What do you mean in business? Do you mean? Do you mean consumer? Do you mean? Well, a few of them I said apart from you I assume, which I thought it was quite nice. And then a whole lot of people just didn’t respond. I was like, wow, you know? So for me the constants were obviously Amazon, John Lewis, et cetera and et cetera. But I see that as a huge opportunity. The fact in Britain, whether it’s still stuck in the class system as I was reading an article, I think I might have sent it to you James, Michel Roux you know, the French restauranteur but sort of said is a bit of a throwback to the class system in the UK which is giving great service is considered to be servial.
Adrian Evans: 13:37 Yeah. Again, I just think it’s probably based on manners, respect for people, et cetera. So for me that’s something that’s going to be a constant, even in an ever changing world. So how can you give great service and deliver online? It’s about meeting expectations. I just bought a great online service called Masterclass. They’ve got all sorts of people on there from great actors like Jodie Foster and even magicians like Penn and Teller, and also campaign managers like David Axelrod and all these sort of people. But the product has delivered in spades, everything it’s promised. So for me, that’s not the sort of way…. I like human interaction, but for me there’s an online product there has completely met my expectations.
James Nathan: 14:24 That’s something I wanted to come on to actually. It’s a good point to talk about it now because the online world, and I’ve been discussing this a lot recently, particularly on this show is, you know, we look at the biggies. We look at Amazon, we look at John Lewis, we look, you know, the names you’ve mentioned. We look at their online service offering. And on the whole it’s good. They try to humanize it as much as possible. They try to get rid of all the friction. So they tried to make it seamless and they tried to make it easy for us. So it’s simple. It’s really, really simple. You click, you’re done. You don’t have to go through lots of rigmarole. You know that great. You look at some of the legacy stuff. My mom’s over at stay with us for a little while at the moment and she’s retired now and loves Europe so she comes across and she uses us as a bit of a base and off she goes.
James Nathan: 15:18 And I was sitting online trying to book her into, I can’t even tell you how many galleries this woman’s going to be visiting in the next few weeks. But you go on these things and you look at, you know, different particular galleries and particular things she wanted to look at in Venice…. And the online process is so cumbersome. You know, it translates and what have you, but it’s so cumbersome. You look at, I think bloody hell. How do they even get people through the door? And then she asked if she said, I’d love to go to the Houses of Parliament and I know they’re in recess in August, do they do tour? So we had a look and yes they do. Have a guess how you book on a tour to the Houses of Parliament in Britain? You have to phone them.
James Nathan: 16:02 You can’t even book it online. You know, and for me, I’m happy I like to talk to somebody, but that is a very big stumbling block, particularly to foreign visitors. You know, and, and so you’re thinking… and when I hear you talking about something that you bought and your really enjoying, it’s working for what you and I think, great, you know, that’s so it should be like that. You know, it’s very difficult. Can I just step back to that Michel Roux quote? Cause that’s something that’s actually come through a number of things and Horst Shutlze who set up or reset up Ritz Carlton. His book came out a little while ago. I think some of these other chefs and hoteliers have picked up on a number of things there to start banging quotes out.
James Nathan: 16:45 So Horst was on and on about this career in hospitality and the difference in countries. And very much Britain suffers from what you’ve described. As you know, there’s a servant master mentality and some of these, you know, you’re only a waiter kind of mentality where in Italy, France, America it’s actually a career choice and people are very proud of what they do. And the difference is enormous. We’ve just come back from a couple of weeks in Orlando and I won’t talk about that cause that’ll fill the whole show, remarkable, fantastic place to go. And you get a mix of service. But on the whole, the levels of service are good in fact, they’re above and you know, people stop to chat to you. People want to take an interest in you.
James Nathan: 17:37 They personalize every interaction because they understand that’s how it works. And I think what Michel picked up in that, in that article that he talked about these issues is actually we’ve got to rethink this. We’ve got to rethink how we approach our businesses and the staff within them and how we help them learn how to do a great job and be proud of that job to the point where they provide us with brilliant service. Because if they don’t, we’re not going back and we don’t go back to places we don’t like. British people…. I mean I talk as an Australian who’s lived here a long time, but in this country, people don’t complain. They just don’t go back.
Adrian Evans: 18:18 Yup. You haven’t been out for dinner with me recently, James
James Nathan: 18:20 You should go out with my Mum…. if it’s not right…. Australians, do this a lot, you know, if it’s not right, it’s not right. And I’m paying for it, so better be right. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I think it’s just a shame that we have to.
Adrian Evans: 18:40 I think what’s interesting for me is, just to quote my father in law, he always said to me, I remember doing quite a lot of recruitment years ago in the luxury goods industry and whatever for all sorts of players there in London. But I remember my father in law defined me, great customer service, and he said, he’s just doing small things really well all the time, every time. And I never really thought about it like that. I think for me, it’s what happens when stuff goes wrong. Now this is an extreme example and it’s an expensive example, but it just typifies it for me is that, you know, I remember it was my wife’s 40th birthday many years ago and we went to Claridges and you know, I was really looking forward to that. Unsurprisingly. Yeah, it wasn’t a cheap weekend and then we arrived, the car parking was, they got the car parking wrong, then our room wasn’t ready.
Adrian Evans: 19:30 So those two things have happened, Now I could see Kate about to explode, but most importantly the doorman he could see she was about to explode. So he literally took her bags off her and said, Madam, come with me. She was literally whisked into the restaurant. She had champagne, put it straight in front of her menus, put in front of her, it was just like a swarm, you know. Obviously lunch was on them. Yup. I didn’t how much those sandwiches could cost. I’m glad I wasn’t paying for them. More caviar place. Yeah. But it was the, it was the move. It was just like, man, just move on, move on, move. Anyway, finally we go to the room and she was going shopping but I wanted to watch the rugby, anyway, TV didn’t work.
Adrian Evans: 20:20 You’re like, jeez, come on. You know, TV doesn’t work. My TV works a home let alone at Claridges. Anyway, engineer comes up. The next thing you know, we get moved, the only room that was better was the royal suite. Okay. Right. Every time something was about to go wrong….So it wasn’t the fact that stuff goes wrong because stuff goes wrong all the time. Yeah. It’s how you respond when stuff does go wrong. And we left feeling really, what a phenomenal experience because each response was excellent. And I think that’s the key. You know, I had to hire a dinner suit the other day. I just walked in and you know, I’m a guy, I want a minimum amount of time, but just want to walk out with the thing. I was in there five minutes fully measured up, and then the lady said, no problem it’s exactly what you want.
Adrian Evans: 21:07 Come back, it’s gonna cost that amount of money next Thursday, pick it up at this time. You can go to your ball on Friday. Effortless. Effortless. It was 35 pounds. So it’s actually a mindset and an attitude. And I think just a little bit of interest, some manners. Some pleases some thank yous. Now we go back to Matthew. We took his say his two buddies out the other day. These kids were immaculate. They spoke to the waitress, they said please, they said thank you, may I have et cetera. And the waitress, you could tell she was stunned at their manners. Now Matthew’s got very good manners as well. But, and then the other one for me is I think you should complain if it’s not about, it’s how you complain. Yup. You need to cause any scenes or anything like this. But it’s just pointing out that actually this is what my expectation was. This is what I ordered. And actually that’s fallen by the wayside. Yeah. So I think those things actually really matter.
James Nathan: 22:04 How you complain is an interesting thing because most people will just hit the roof. Kind of my thoughts here are…. you mentioned Claridges which is obviously a very high end place. You mentioned a dinner suit for 35 quid. The more we pay, the more we expect. And I actually think it’s wonderful when you don’t pay a lot and you get an amazing service because it just makes you feel superb. But when we pay large amounts for things, we expect them to be spot on and we notice the differences very quickly. Now, a lot of people would just go mad if they turned up in the parking wasn’t right and the room wasn’t right. They’d be spitting…. You know but I remember you know, I don’t want talk about my Mum too much of this podcast.
James Nathan: 22:57 But I remember her saying to me when I was very young, James you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. And it’s absolutely true. If you want something to happen, people like to help people who are nice. But, similarly, if you’re nice, they will work much, much harder to sort it out for you, when you spit and scream, they lose it. They don’t find it easy to respond. They’re not often trained well enough as how to deal with people who are angry. And actually you don’t end up getting what you want.
Adrian Evans: 23:30 I couldn’t agree more. It was interesting for me, but I did look at that moment and just think we could have pressed the red….. You know, the red mist could come over. We could have just got really worked up
James Nathan: 23:41 And you know, denying a Welshman a television when the rugby’s on. I think that’s tantamount to murder isn’t it?
Adrian Evans: 23:47 Well, absolutely, absolutely. That could have been a sense of humour failure going on there.
James Nathan: 23:53 Oh, I can imagine. So when you’re talking to the clients that you’re working with now and you mentioned your three things, just tell us what you mean by evergreen needs?
Adrian Evans: 24:07 An evergreen need for me is something that’s…… let’s just go back. We live in a very consumer orientated society that looks like there’s all sorts of wants and needs that we have to have. Okay. Now, truth for me is, you know, we do live in a very affluent part of the UK, but it seems amazing to me when I strip this back for children and for adults is we have a lot of basic human needs that we try and fulfil with all sorts of things. And I don’t think this will surprise you. I’m very un-materialistic as an individual myself, any jewelery, I’m not bothered by the car I drive, et cetera, et cetera, regardless of what I earn. And the truth is we can serve ourselves a lot more by, for instance, things like human connection. Now that is me being wishy washy, whatever. But if you look, there is a basic human need, an evergreen human need to be connected to other things. Okay. You know, why do people spend…… I was stunned the other day. Dogs, now dogs, not my favourite. I’m not really a fan of dogs, I was bitten by a few as a child or whatever. But you know, we are the only middle class family around here without a beautiful dog. I’m sure we are, there aren’t many of us. Okay. Anyway….
James Nathan: 25:17 It’s a failing Adrian. It’s a real failing…..
Adrian Evans: 25:20 What is the purpose that a dog brings? I have seen children’s anxiety drop because of a dog, which is brilliant. I’ve seen families come together, go walking more together, be more connected together, but that’s a sense of belonging. So for me, an evergreen need is to belong and be part of human connection. An evergreen need for me is we always need to need to learn income. Yet we always would need to have an income. We always need to have a purpose and a reason to get up in the morning. These are evergreen human needs regardless of technology or whatever’s happening. And if you can tap into an evergreen need by definition it’s always going to be demand for that product.
James Nathan: 26:01 So when businesses are looking at their service offering and they understand the importance of human connection, what should they be doing to make that a reality or make a higher level of connection in their businesses, to make it more of a reality for their staff?
Adrian Evans: 26:20 I think for me, again, let me give you my definition. If I can just put this into context of what’s customer service. Yeah. Okay. So I asked my most important clients what’s most important….. That they’re my longest standing clients. I asked them, look, and I do this every December. I said, I want to be better and serve you more next year. Yep. And, I have ever, ever had yet. And I’ve got clients who pay me every single month for the last seven years. Okay. And the common element was I want you to anticipate my,…. so these people, I’ve got dramatic increases, have doubled their salary in four years. Said to me, I want you to anticipate my problems and take my stress levels down.
Adrian Evans: 27:12 Now I’m being completely honest with you, when I first heard that I sort of gulped a bit. I went, whoa. I asked the question, so you know, I better take the answer. And then I thought to myself, how do I do that? And so I thought, let’s ask more…. And he said to me, look, I’m not expecting you to be a futurist, but what you are good at and I believe you can do is look around the bend of the next quarter. Yeah. Anyway, I stopped doing some analysis and getting data as I always do. And I thought actually there are different stages of people’s careers and different stages. You know, he’d just been promoted and just taken on a new role that evolved different times. And I could predict his next set of problems with not too many problems. Yeah, we’re pretty accurate.
Adrian Evans: 27:54 But if you are able to, one, anticipate what your customer’s problems are going to be and then two solve them, but then have the humility to meet them where they are because it’s very easy to be a smarty and go, ooh, hang about I can solve your problems. It’s much more difficult to go back to your customer, meet them where they are, pace and lead them effectively, and then solve the problem. So, to answer that on a more basic level, I think the most important thing people can do is remember the costs of poor service. Okay. People are always banging on about new business development. You know, we came from a culture of new biz, new biz, new biz. The smartest thing I ever did was I realized by giving stellar service to one person who then wanted a team, my business development was done.
Adrian Evans: 28:42 Okay, so remind yourself of the costs. I’ll go back to my suit example. Seven of us got our suits from that person. Why we’re guys. And you know, I got a call on that Wednesday night from somebody saying, you know, my mate Wayne saying to me, where’d you get your suit from? Well, so I tell him, then he tells the other people, that wasn’t one piece of business. That was seven. Now how many other people are we going to tell in this area and go, oh yeah, just go and to see them. That is sorted, that is so easy. That will take you no time. So it costs you money. And also, what about a little bit of compassion in the world? You know, I kind word goes a hell of a long way, When somebody gives you a compliment, sorry, this is the very basis of everything I do.
Adrian Evans: 29:26 I believe we all need people who believe in us more than what we believe in ourselves. And it’s just a basic human connection. If you are polite to people, nice to people, and listen to people. I remember interviewing from a major mobile telecoms company, a guy once he was, they couldn’t have messed mobile telecoms up more than whatever. This guy was brilliant though. He didn’t say a word for 20 minutes whilst my business partner and I ranted to them and he said, is there anything else you’d like me to discuss? Well, another thing and another thing and another thing, another thing. And then after 35 minutes, is there anything else you’d like to discuss? And my business partner at the time, he said, apart from the fact that my wife and I had an argument today, can you sort that out as well? He’d sat there, he’d absorbed and then laid it back. Okay, so we’ve got three fundamental problems. One, two, and three. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. I can solve the first two right now. The other one I’m going to need to work on. Would that be okay if I solve those two now work on this one and refund you this? How can we object, he listened to us, he’d understood us, he clearly communicated it back to us and frankly we wanted to recruit him into our business.
James Nathan: 30:36 Number one skill of a sales person Adrian?
Adrian Evans: 30:39 What’s that? Go on….
James Nathan: 30:40 Listening. And it’s a skill you can’t teach, you can help people learn. Everyone hears, but not everyone can listen. And it’s, it’s interesting when you talk….. the stereotype of a salesperson is the big talker. The best sales people are the great listeners. You’ve nailed it beautifully. It’s right into every aspect of service and service is so connected with delivery that that I think they’re the same thing. There are so many people that that separate those two things in their businesses or separate business development from delivery and there’s a disconnect and that disconnect is a problem. And particularly when businesses scale. And or that they don’t want to train their staff, which is a whole different conversation. Adrian we could talk all day and often you and I do. I’m conscious of your time but also I’m keen to find out the big question. What’s your golden nugget? What’s the one thing you’d like to leave people with today that can help them make their businesses better for tomorrow?
Adrian Evans: 31:48 Okay. I think the big one for me is, which skill are you not focusing on yourself or training your business to have that ultimately is costing you revenue? Which core skill? Because if it’s a skill, it’s learnable and if it’s learnable it’s teachable and it’s scalable. And how can you adapt? How can you adapt to use that skill and apply it? That for me would make a dramatic difference on anybody’s business.
James Nathan: 32:18 Fantastic. Something great for people to think about there. Adrian, thank you so much. It’s been lovely chatting with you and I look forward to catching up with you again very soon as well.
Adrian Evans: 32:28 James, I really appreciate today and thank you very much indeed and no doubt we are due a lunch soon, so, let’s get that in the diary…..
James Nathan: 32:36 Well, that’d be on you then. Fantastic. Cheers.