S2E15 The Power of Emotion, Diversity and Inclusion at Work with Gian Power

S2E15 The Power of Emotion, Diversity and Inclusion at Work with Gian Power

James chats with Gian Power who whilst working at Deutsche Bank and PwC witnessed first-hand some of the wellbeing & inclusion issues that need to be tackled in the corporate world.


In 2015, Gian’s life changed forever when his father was murdered whilst overseas. When returning back to work, Gian saw the power of being able to share his emotions and being his full self at work. Recognising that everyone has a story, he wanted to encourage others to share and saw the power of storytelling.


He is the founder of TLC Lions and The Unwind Experience and is passionate about igniting emotion in the workplace, encouraging others to share and be themselves at work.


They discuss the power of emotion and storytelling at work, the ROI of diversity and inclusion, what we can learn from 5 year olds and how corporate organisations and businesses generally can benefit from meditation.


Contact Gian:


Web: www.tlclions.com
Email: gian@tlclions.com
twitter: @GianPower, @tlclions

Click for the full transcript

James Nathan  0:53   Hello and welcome to the only one business show with me your host James Nathan and a fabulous guest for you today and I hope we’re going to have, well, you are going to enjoy this conversation. He set up his first business aged just 13 and went on to work with Deutsche Bank and PwC, witnessing firsthand some of the well being and inclusion issues that need to be tackled in the corporate world. In 2015 an unexpected family tragedy changed his life forever. And on returning to work, he saw the power of being able to share his emotions and being his full self. Recognizing that everyone has a story, he wanted to encourage others to share and saw the power of storytelling. He’s the founder of TLC Lions and The Unwind Experience and is passionate about igniting emotion in the workplace, encouraging others to share and be themselves at work. And his work has now reached over 57 countries around the world and is featured in the Independent, Business Advisor and part of a BBC One documentary. He’s been invited to interview such names as day Dame Esther Rantzen and Reggie Yates and has spoken at events alongside His Royal Highness Prince William, and popstar Will Young. He also sits on the board of This Can Happen which is the UK largest mental health conference and is supported by Westminster hosting his own roundtables at the House of Lords to further the agenda alongside the UK Government. This year in 2019 he was the winner of the NatWest Great British Entrepreneur Qwards, and has been named as one of Empowers 100 Ethnic Minority Executives. Goodness me, please welcome… that’s a lot of stuff. We please welcome Gian Power. Gian, how are you?


Gian Power 2:37  Hello, I’m good thank you, all good. That was a long introduction. Wasn’t it?


James Nathan  2:41  I shortened what I was going to say because you’ve been a really busy guy, haven’t you?


Gian Power 2:46  Yeah, it’s an interesting last 18 months lots been happening. But yeah, non stop. But all good fun.


James Nathan  2:53  Take us back in time. And just if you don’t mind, just give me and the listeners, just a better background to who you are and how you got to where you are and what you’re doing these days.


Gian Power 3:04  Sure. Yeah. So my background as you said, I kind of set my first business at 13 and absolutely loved it. So that entrepreneurial nature I guess, came out quite young. But then kind of went down a bit more of a traditional route…. University, joined Deutsche Bank as you say, and I kind of grew up with my Dad who’s an entrepreneur by background and really kind of put this go getting nature within me and said, whatever you want, you can kind of go out and achieve but my mom quite the opposite. I guess, she’s kind of just a… does a lot with children, counsellor by background, a very calm, so they kind of brought me up together very normal upbringing. And then yeah, as I said, I kind of joined PwC very much performance driven, focused. But then yeah, nine months into joining there a lot changed for me. One night in 2015. And, yeah, kind of was working the city. So my dad got murdered overseas, and I guess just a very normal life as I knew it kind of went across the media, and my attempt to try and get justice for Dad. But more importantly, really, and you know, I took three months out of work, PwC were hugely supportive. And they really, were great. I think, you know, when you’ve got organizations who feel like a second family, it makes all the difference. But when I came back into the office, so many things changed. And I started, you know, a lot more people started sharing their stories with me, and I realized that everybody has a story. And, you know, unfortunately a colleague of mine who I joined with, he was 23, he jumped off the building and ended his life. And it just made me realize, like, we’ve got to do more to bring human back to corporates we’re human beings, not human doings. And, you know, I kind of want to do more. So, yeah, in short I recognize everybody has a story. And actually when you have a story to share, and you share it at work, and you have to a caring kind and understanding, actually it allowed me to really thrive. I never took a sick day I was much more productive, so much more loyal. And yeah, I wanted to do more across the city. So, hence why I left and went on a mission to ignite emotion in the workplace through storytelling with TLC Lions. Lion being mine and my Dad’s middle name.


James Nathan  5:12  Sure. And you kind of very quickly glossed over what must have been one of the most horrendous experiences, anybody can, you know, have to come to…. to cope with and come to terms with and then back into an environment where, you know, my background’s accountancy as well and you know, an environment where people don’t want to show anything but strength and I’d like to show weakness and obviously that’s an incredibly, incredibly unhealthy way to be.


Gian Power  5:40  Yep, absolutely. And I just, you know, my I suppose you could say I didn’t really have a choice because it was in the media and I had to speak up. But actually, it was so much better when I did because it was like a pressure valve had been released. But you’ve got to have the right people around you the right leaders who are caring and understanding because if you don’t Then people do bottle it up. And that’s why this stuff really does start at the top. And it starts with leading by example in organizations. And you know, we often say our leaders, are they contagious? Are they really empowering their employees to speak up?


James Nathan 6:14  What was the trigger though… what was the point where you thought you know what? Speaking the way I am is actually making a difference for me.


Gian Power 6:24  Yeah, I guess it was when I started realizing that I had two projects going on at the same time. And with one the leader was really she was so busy, but she was so caring and understanding. She’s called Izzy Gross. She’s a good friend of mine today. And she just listened and listened to understand not to just respond and create that safe place. And I would then realize that I’d go above and beyond for her versus another project. You know, I was working, I remember two or three in the morning one night and I went over to the manager and I said, Look, I’ve got to go and she said, she didn’t even look at me. She just looked at her watch and said, be back In five hours, and I just remember thinking, wow, that’s not where I want to work. That’s not the type of leader I want to be. And it just made me think God, I’m going to do so much more for the other person. And I guess that’s when the penny dropped, that we’ve got to do more. But similarly, there’s one Senior Partner who shared her story with me of something that happened when she was 26. And, you know, we were like all tears going in her office one day, and I was like, why have you never shared this, I was like, so much more inspiring to know that people who’ve made it whatever that looks like, have gone through their own turbulent times. I thought, my God, I’ve got to do more to get the human out in people.


James Nathan 7:37  That’s a really interesting thing. You said there, you know, so much more inspiring when when there’s that level of honesty. Because we talk about honesty all the time, and, you know, being authentic and all this kind of stuff. And a lot of the time, it’s just words. It’s not real.


Gian Power 7:51  Exactly. And I think you know, I was doing some research recently into storytelling and words, and there’s so many buzzwords now that it says that we’re so used to hearing things like resilience and being your whole self at work, and they are important, but we’re so desensitized to them. The brain doesn’t even compute them anymore. I’m trying to say just be human, people walk into an office, and they are a mother or father or son or daughter. Don’t let them slip just because you go into a corporate environment. Care about your team like a second family.


James Nathan  8:22  Yeah, I know. I’d say everything you’re saying is ringing very, very clear bells with me. And I’m sure it is with people listening as well. I remember walking into my first corporate job and thinking, oh, I better be the way that I think I should be. Yes. And it was only later when I changed roles and went into a different company that I realized actually being myself as a whole lot better. But happy workers are great workers aren’t they. I mean, it’s not that suddenly we everyone seems to understand. What does that What does TLC Lions do? What’s the purpose and how does it work?


Gian Power  8:54  Sure. So, in short, we brought together 25 ordinary people with extraordinary stories. And each of these Lions really has a powerful story to share, but an understanding of the corporate world, and they’re people who are really championing in that respective field today. So we work with around 95 multinational companies to really ignite this emotion in the human back through storytelling. So that could be through kind of whether we do lunch and learns or we do AGMs, or we get involved in what might be a technical training, for example, will bring that to life at the end through one of our stories. And the focus is to ignite that emotion to evoke that, and to get people it’s almost like a ripple effect. If you hear somebody sharing, people start to open up and it builds a circle of trust and people and start sharing themselves internally. So that’s kind of what our focus and that’s what our mission is through our awesome Lions we’ve brought together.


James Nathan  9:50  So how does it company, what did they think they think or do you know what I’ve heard of these guys we’ll get them in or is there is there a trigger for their businesses where they understand that actually is time to speak to someone like you and the guys who work with you.


Gian Power 10:05  Yeah, I guess so we do a lot around well being and inclusion in the workplace and the business cases there as well, you know, there’s a Deloitte Report in 2017 every one pound invested and well being yields nine pounds back or, you know the case for diversity inclusion, it can add up to 30% on the bottom line when we have a diverse board. So why aren’t we doing more? I think businesses are waking up to realize that this is no longer just a nice to have, it’s actually a business imperative, and it affects the bottom line. So I think that’s twofold that it’s really, you know, one they’ve got to seen to be doing it, but actually hopefully waking up that this does affect the business.


James Nathan  10:40  It’s interesting him and you mentioned business case there and profit and, you know, talking with with Rob Stevenson, who I know, you know, earlier on in the in this series of podcasts and he was talking about budgets. Do the budgets exist for well being or they are they still you know, does it still need to be made or money shifted or how does a business…. Where are we at at the moment in the corporates?


Gian Power  11:05  So I guess I can only speak from my side, which is not as a budget holder, I suppose. But yes, some companies are waking up to it and realizing the importance of setting aside budgets and funds and the right resource that’s required for this important topic. And I challenge a lot of companies instead of putting, you know, £5000 behind the bar this Friday, actually invest in something meaningful. But at the same time, you know, not everything requires a budget. But you know, there are the small and simple things that companies can be doing to make a huge difference. I think it’s about realizing, you know, where the huge impact comes from. So yeah, I think in short, companies are waking up to it. And setting budgets aside, but I challenge companies who are doing that and not to make it tick box exercise and make sure they’re monitoring the return on investment, and the difference they’re making stuff.


James Nathan 11:53  Oh, absolutely. I mean, you mentioned some interesting figures there. Where did they come from?


Gian Power 11:58  Which figures the ones, the reports I mentioned?


James Nathan  12:00  Yeah, the return on investment.


Gian Power  12:02  Yeah, so that’s a Deloitte report. Deloitte did a report in October 2017, was 27th of October. And it was commissioned with the UK Government. And this was a huge was really, really interesting study. That’s the report that also started sharing the numbers around the cost of not just absenteeism in the workplace, people obviously not being there but also presenteeism, the cost of people being at work and not being focused on the job because they’re thinking of other things. It’s a huge number of billion, billions of impact that it has in organizations. And hopefully, you know, I remember reading the report and I emailed Elizabeth, one of the authors that night and went to me the next day to really dig deep into it.It’s a great report.


James Nathan 12:44  Fantastic. And so you obviously, the big companies often have bigger pockets. And you mentioned small things and simple things that businesses could do. What small things and free things I guess can small businesses do? What can they be thinking of and what have you seen work really, really well?


Gian Power  13:02  Yeah, I think there’s just small things that you can do in teams. I mean, this is, this is a random example. I just happened to be with a great guy called Tulia from Goldman Sachs today. He was saying, you know, the end of every day, he just high fives his team, keeps them happy. They might think, what are you doing? But he’s like, hey, it’s making you laugh, isn’t it? You know, it’s just small things that just kind of changed morale within the team. But when we were looking at suppose at mental health and things like that, it’s, you know, really encouraging storytelling across individuals, or, you know, one of our clients, you know, Hyatt who we have a great relationship with in some of their meetings, if it’s an hour long meeting, spending the first few minutes in meditation, doesn’t cost anything, just doing some breathing exercises, the team, even if they are on the line around the world, and the remaining 55 minutes or whatever, it is actually so much more productive. The people who might be often get more louder, I suppose in those meetings are bit calmer and quieter. Those who are normally quieter kind of got a bit more voice because it just puts them on a level playing field. You know, IBM has a Monday morning meditation everybody can dial into. There’s loads of different things like that people can do that see a nice return on not just investment of money. It’s actually time and resource. Yeah.


James Nathan  14:18  When you mentioned meditation, I mean, I can almost hear people going, oh, that’d be ridiculous. And the people who say that tend to be people who haven’t been involved in it, and then when they do that, you think actually, what a fool I was, you know, this is really wonderful. The Unwind Experience comes from that kind of mindset, doesn’t it, of getting that that group meditation going within a business? How does that work?


Gian Power 14:44  Yeah, exactly. So just to kind of take you back where that evolved. There was a time I suppose, for me when, you know, I had the media constantly outside the office, and it was quite overwhelming. And actually, in a moment when it was just all really all encompassing, and a leader said to me Gian, listen to this, go into the toilet, shut the door and listen to this. And I had no idea what it was. But it was a 10 minute meditation on YouTube. And I just thought, What on earth is this similar to all the skeptics out there, but actually in a situation that was hard to manage and navigate, I came back just, you know, being able to kind of navigate my way through it really, and to deal with everything properly and accordingly. And then I realized that actually a few friends of mine were going out, going into hospital, should I say, burning out. And I’d always ask the same question of do you meditate? Have you tried meditation and, you know, you’d get that thing of no Gian, that’s not for me. And then somehow, we’ve really got to get corporate friends of mine meditating. And it’s got to be done in a way that’s quite cool and accessible. It doesn’t have to have those religious connotations. And despite that being the origin. Yeah, I was inspired to create this new concept of The Unwind Experience. One of the first surround sound experiences that we take into organizations and it’s been quite the journey since.


James Nathan  15:59  How does it work?


Gian Power 16:01  So, yeah, we kind of have two sides to it. So one is that we’ll do corporate meditation. And we’ll go into the likes of, I think we work with Deloitte, Just Eat, Universal Music, take your traditional rooms, and really transform them into our kind of special experience of a candlelit oasis, and take them into a 30 minute guided meditation. But for us, it is this kind of experiential field that we put our unique spin on it to really take employees away from the desks. Similarly, we also do kind of bespoke brand activations. Yes, and working with awesome organizations to bring their brands to life. Rather just speak about it. Let’s get people to feel it.


James Nathan  16:44  Sure. Absolutely. And how does a manager…. if you’re sitting there with the team and thinking, well, I really want to…… let’s step back a moment. When you mentioned meditation before meetings and the louder ones becoming slightly quieter and even better the quieter ones getting a voice. If I was listening to that now with my team, I be thinking, you know, that sounds really good. How can I start the journey for my team in my business?


Gian Power  17:12  I think if you, if you’ve got people in your team, you might be a little bit skeptical. I think it’s firstly just outlining to them the advantages of meditation. You know, it can enhance decision making, it can enhance productivity. It can reduce anxiety, there are so many awesome things. And it’s a tool that doesn’t cost anything. We’ve all got a breath. And it’s kind of what most of us do. It’s always there and I think that’s the first thing is, you know, if you’ve got a team of their head or heart people, that’s the first thing maybe they understand the advantages. And then just don’t put stress on people. Don’t push it on people that you’ve got to meditate every day. I say there’s no right or wrong way that everybody should or shouldn’t meditate, find what works for you. They might want to for example, there’s awesome apps Headspace and Calm. I use Calm, it works for me, just doing 10 minutes every day when I can. Just take some time out for myself and you know, there’s facts out there that actually, people think the meditation takes time away from your day. But actually, if you can give it 10 minutes or whatever per day actually almost brings you time back because you have so much calmer. So much clearer thinking, I can come up with so many ideas, and I’m much more creative after I meditate for 10 minutes.


James Nathan  18:18 And 10 minutes is not a lot of time. I mean, we waste so much time don’t we during our day.


Gian Power 18:22  You know what, it’s so true. I think, you know, we have 1440 minutes in a day, what’s 10 of those to take and leaves you with how many thousand and whatever the rest of the day, just take it out. And it Yeah, and even it just helps me so so much every day.


James Nathan  18:38  You know, when you say that, I look across my office at my exercise bike and it frowns at me me. I think God you know, 20 minutes, 10 minutes, half an hour. But actually, you know, there’s nothing you need other than some empty space, a set of headphones and being left alone, really which is which is a whole different thing.


Gian Power  18:57  Exactly. Exactly. You got it.


James Nathan 18:59  How did you get involved with the House of Lords and the roundtables there?


Gian Power  19:04  Yeah, so I’ve got, I’m really proud to have a really great advisory board. One of my advisors is called Dr Kamal Hothi and she is actually the UK’s first female Asian bank manager. And spent 40 years at Lloyds Banking Group but now is an amazing advisor on the Queen’s Commonwealth Trust and a number of other charities. Now, she’s been really kind of banging the drum around inclusion and wellbeing the workplace for four decades, and does a lot in government and thanks to her as well and Baroness Verma, who’s a close friend of miles. Baroness Verma kindly offered to host us every quarter, really believes in what we’re doing our passion and drive, sees the business case and why it’s the right thing to do? And yeah, so the Baronesses actually the United Nations chair for women in the UK. So you can see the kind of obvious linking to her passion and yeah, that’s kind of how it evolved.


James Nathan  20:02  And so who’s that those tables and what does it achieve?


Gian Power  20:06  So the tables are done in Chatham House Rules. And yeah, we have a variety of our clients throughout different times of the year to discuss important topics that are close to them, dictated by them, to really kind of, I want to push this agenda cross industry, I want competitors sat next to each other, helping one another. I want non traditional industries supporting each other. And really just cross sharing of ideas across industry for greater good. At the end of the day, talent moves around and we need to help organizations and help each other.


James Nathan  20:41  I mean, I didn’t mean to pry in terms of the actual names, but I just wondered sort of what kind of style of businesses there is it all big business that you’re talking to other smaller businesses involved as well.


Gian Power  20:53  So we’ve got a range of them and all of our clients are on the website. So we work with so as mentioned from college, Sony Pictures to Warner Brothers all the way through to Rothschild to MasterCard, American Express, Visa. So a real kind of wide range of them. And again, you know, I’ve mentioned competitors, I mentioned different industries. And it’s really bringing the right people around the table depending on the topic to push this forward.


James Nathan  21:19  How does storytelling change things? When you talk about you know, people…. Obviously, everyone you say everyone has a story, and of course, we all do, but storytelling and talking about your story of different things, aren’t they?


Gian Power 21:34  So I think they go hand in hand. I mean, storytelling has been around for thousands of years since you know, cavemen were telling stories. These days we just seem to have changed it with presentations, PowerPoints, and things like that. And their stories are 65% more memorable than facts. You know, it they really, really are so important. And I think you know, when we tell a story it releases different chemicals in the brain, oxytocin, which helps, you know, build trust and empathy among people. You know, that’s what we want an organizations. So actually, hopefully through the work that we do with the Lions, and sharing stories and storytelling, it helps build that trust and empathy and evoke that within them to then go and do the same internally amongst each other.


James Nathan 22:16  And those Lions are extraordinarily inspirational people. I mean, you know, you mentioned their ordinary people with extraordinary stories, but their stories are phenomenal. And there’s a real mix there. Is that something that’s growing? Are you bringing more people into the Lions or have you got kind of the right mix at the moment?


Gian Power 22:35  So we are always open to the right potential Lions, if we see a right fit. But we have been, we have to be very selective with the right people, not only from a cultural point of view, because you know, it’s a close community, but also what value with our clients, you know, I think corporate background can they can really bring this story to life and so I guess in short, we’re always on the lookout for amazing talent. You know, this week we brought on board Alexandra Kutas. Alexandra is the world’s first runway model in a wheelchair. Yeah, she’s really, really awesome. I think just an amazing person. She’s not only got a story to share, and people might see Alexandra in a wheelchair, but actually she talks about mental health, not about physical. And, you know, she’s really championing the fashion industry today to change them for greater good. And that’s what I’m about. It’s one thing having a story and we all have one. And you know, but it’s actually what are people passionately doing and driving to make a change in that space and across the of 25 of them I’ve got, yeah, a right range, we got Chico’s really passionate about all things, you know, adventuring the ocean plastic, and then I was out with George last night, he’s another adventurer and the Danny’s in the film industry. And Jeremy, who’s a lawyer, so it’s really, really diverse and they teach me so so very much.


James Nathan  24:00  You’re incredibly lucky to be surrounded, I mean, obviously, we make our own luck in life, but to be surrounded by those sort of inspirations must drive you as well. Do you find that since you’ve put this together, you’re becoming even better?


Gian Power  24:15  Better in what respect?


James Nathan 24:17  Well, in every way, I guess, as a person, in what you achieve and how you think about those things.


Gian Power 24:23  Yeah, I guess I always say that I can learn from anyone or anything, you know, anything I love, like taking the good from it. And each one of these 25, they’ve taught me something, you know, just kind of thinking about them. Now, you know, Johnny Benjamin, he was the stranger on the bridge. Just such an awesome guy and so much in the mental health space, you know, for people around the world with such like, just love and admiration for what he does. And he’s just, yeah, we speak a lot about happiness and we spend time together or then I’ll speak to you know, George last night. He’s an adventurer and explorer. He’s got so many world records, and we just talked about, like just the fun side of life and whatever we do we want to enjoy it. You know, just so many all the way through to Jacqui Gavin, who’s one of our Lions, who’s transgender, just teaching me so much and I can get really curious with her and ask her questions that maybe people think you can’t. So they really educate me about so many topics.


James Nathan  25:20  Oh, I’m absolutely sure and you know, when I look at the there’s such an impressive group of people… when we look at them, and you mentioned them being ordinary people. What’s lovely is that they are ordinary people. And they are people who have it just like you, you know, been to work one day and the next day things are different. Or, you know, something’s come to them. I know, you know, a couple there who are friends of mine who took an enormous amount of time to get to where they are now. And the ability to learn quickly from people like that is really, really wonderful. But having the, all in one place I think that’s also quite special. What’s the next step for the Lions? And for The Unwind Experience? Where do you take it next?


Gian Power 26:11  Yeah, so we’re constantly evolving and to be honest, working with our clients on what that looks like. Now, it’s about kind of shaping as I mentioned, bringing the right and any new Lions on board, understanding where we might have gaps in what we do. And, you know, I’m really actively looking for somebody maybe, you know, a cancer survivor, who’s been through the workplace was going through that. Domestic violence, you know, male and female, you’ve been you’ve gone through that, because it’s very different, you know, going to work while stuffing without at home. It happens so much across the industry. So for me, it’s about finding that, making sure that we are really representing as many stories as we can in the work that we do. And we’re doing a lot more work internationally as well. So I’ve been individually and I think 16 countries this year. Quite a hectic travel schedule, and it’s just you’re working with our clients overseas as well to ensure that one we can bring this to life across their organization globally, whilst also understanding kind of the cultural nuances in each geography, which is super important.


James Nathan  27:16  Well, you just mentioned what I was going to ask, which was how does culture affect this particularly with some of the more traditional cultures? How do you bring out what you need to from those people?


Gian Power 27:28  Yeah, it’s huge. I mean, I’m half Indian by background and you know, in our, in our culture, there’s no word for mental health. There’s no word for things like dementia. There’s a huge, huge stigma attached and you know, it doesn’t you can’t just roll out a one size fits all mental health strategy. I think people who are planning these, yes it’s great that we’re seeing a change. It’s vital that they understand the people the makeup of their employees. And we’re doing a lot with, you know, charities like Alzheimer’s Society. One of my advisors sits on the board there to really challenge them because dementia is going to be the biggest killer globally, I believe is by 2030. And actually, so much more needs to be done, especially in the ethnic minority community to get people speaking up about this. And, yeah, it’s huge. I mean, when we look at one of our lines, Johnny Benjamin, I mentioned him again, but the reason is, you know, Johnny is from a Jewish background, Johnny came out was gay, and actually in that community it was very difficult for him to come out. And the knock on effect was his mental health.


James Nathan  28:29  Look, I’m Jewish as well, my family, you know, going back forever, as these things to. And my Mum’s gay, and when she came out to my grandfather who’s no longer alive, he didn’t speak to her for three decades.


Gian Power  28:45  Really…


James Nathan 28:46  Yeah, and you, I mean, obviously, that’s had a massive effect on our family. But when I look back at it now, I think you silly old fool, what the hell what you know, because obviously we think differently, but that mindset is is impossible to get your head around. And where someone could design their own child, it baffles meters to the core. And so when you’re working with cultures that are so ingrained like that, you know, it isn’t surprising that people have a hard time or, you know, even just being honest with their families, because the knock on for the mist is too extreme.


Gian Power  29:26  So true. And that’s why I’m just like, you know, when I see meet people from different backgrounds, and let’s let people live, let them be happy. Let them be their selves. I think one of the most amazing things about all the people we meet is their uniqueness and what they bring. And I’m just like, who am I to judge somebody else’s life? And I know it’s difficult in different cultures and the way we’ve got to battle and challenge them. It’s, you know, we were out in India last month with Bloomberg and Hyatt, they’re talking about, you know, some of the issues around gender out there. You know, there’s so much work but actually together with the right people around the world if we can start trying to combat some of these issues we can make the world a better place for people to really be their unique selves.


James Nathan 30:08  Is it a timing thing do you think? Is there a….. because I look at my kids and I talk about my kids a lot of the podcast but I look at them now and you know, they don’t see difference the way that I think I saw at their age. And even though we live in in a quite a…. living in the country in Oxfordshire, it’s a fairly white middle class, you know, Anglo Saxon part of Britain, but they don’t notice difference and you know, the kids at school that Ben goes to in Reading come from everywhere, every background you can imagine, which I think is really healthy but as they grow up, their attitudes, to race to religion, to gender, to sexual orientation. They seem so much broader and so much more together about them. Is the whole issue going to disappear?


Gian Power  31:01  I think there’s a lot to do that I believe with kind of the perception in society because you know, working with companies like Sony Pictures, Warner Brothers, Universal…. film companies are waking up to make sure that things going out on TV are more diverse of a more inclusive, they’re showing people of all backgrounds. There are more people on social media than ever, so how do we make sure that the information and the TV and things that people see, really bring it to everybody, because when you go back to where I’m from back up in the North of England, in Durham, I was the only non-white person in my school out of 500. You know, right here back then, you know, I’m not saying it was that long ago, but kind of compared to now i’m sure those kids watch so much TV, so many things with such diverse cultures and things on social media, they follow, you know, their favorite football teams that are now more inclusive than ever and ethnically diverse. So it’s hopefully changing things and that’s why I think the film industry has a huge responsibility to make sure that they’re challenging this challenging the status quo. So that people like your kids, and also my niece, who’s five, when I chat to her about things, she also doesn’t see the difference. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It’s really interesting.


James Nathan  32:10  It’s quite lovely. It’s quite lovely when you see that and you just think fabulous, you know, if what we could learn from a five year old….


Gian Power  32:19  Creativity back from them as well.


James Nathan  32:22  Well, that too, that as well. I’m loving chatting with you, but I’m also conscious of time and, and I’d love you just to, if you could leave just one thought perhaps given one golden nugget, one thing that people could do in their businesses and their lives today to make everything just a little bit nicer, a little bit better. What would that be?


Gian Power 32:41  Yeah, I guess if anybody’s listening, I say everybody has a story. And it’s not always easy to share. But if you can find the courage, maybe one to one or with somebody at work, to share it with them, and let them know that you’re always there to listen to them as well. I think if we can do that we’ll create a lovely ripple effect. You know to help each other and create what human workplaces where we story share and work at the same time.


James Nathan  33:06  What a great thing to finish on. Gian, thank you so much for your time. I’ve really loved having you as guest.


Gian Power 33:12 Thank you so much.

Gian Power  33:12  Thanks so much.



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