S4e1 The Effortless Proactive Customer Support Edition with Sarah Hatter
James chats with Sarah Hatter, Customer Support consultant, author of “The Customer Support Handbook” and founder of the largest online community and event for CX professionals, ElevateCX, producing 30 events over the last 10 years.
She is the founder and co-runner of CoSupport a coaching, training, hiring and writing consultancy who help companies of all sizes learn how to respond to customers better, and make the web a better place.
They discuss email signatures, keeping doors open, phone support, and great little details.
00:39.59 james nathan Hello and welcome to a brand new season of the only one business show and I’m really excited to be back having been away for a little while after the days of covid and and got some really great guests lined up for this series and I really hope you’re going to enjoy the conversations that we have. Today to kick off things I’m really excited because I’ve got a fabulous guest for you.
She’s a customer experience consultant and set up, founded and has been running CoSupport for the last eleven years and they are a business which helps redefine and refine the support and success programs that businesses have as well as offering CX recruiting services and outsourcing support help.
She’s the author of “The Customer Support Handbook” and also the founder of the largest online community and event for cx professionals. ElevateCX. Now, I’m going to pump this for her because they’ve produced 30 events in the last ten years and the next event is due to happen in September 29 and 30 in Denver Colorado so we’ll certainly make a noise about that a bit later.
And I’ve got to tell you I’m also really delighted because her auto signature on her email says “let me know if you need anything else”, Sarah Hatter Founder and Awesome Lady.
So please welcome an awesome lady Sarah Hatter. Sarah how are you?
03:36.92 Sarah Hatter I’m so great. Thank you so much for that lovely intro. I should say I was gonna say you would be surprised but I doubt you will be surprised how many people comment on that email signature. I think it… I think it kind of like catches people off guard.
But, you are a tech veteran and you probably are the same way. You’ve seen all the titles right? Guru, expert, you know, Genie Wizard and I just kind of for ten or fifteen years have just been pretty basic about who I am so yeah, that’s it.
04:35.49 james nathan Well, it’s who you are and I think it’s, I think it’s wonderful, really good. When you first emailed me and it said let me know if you need anything else. I read that as such a personal statement. It was only when I saw it the next time I thought oh it’s your auto signature.
04:52.28 Sarah Hatter Yes. But it is sometimes, I also have it as a text expander snippet. It’s just kind of one of those hallmarks I think of people who are very service oriented have that mindset of you know the door’s always open and I always try to tell people when you think about like how you’re closing a conversation. Don’t actually close the door.
05:21.87 james nathan Ah.
05:46.76 Sarah Hatter Right? So yeah I’m glad but yes it it was certainly personal. But I meant it at the same time.
05:53.53 james nathan No, I know, I know. How did you get into customer experience, where did your journey start and how did you get where you are?
06:06.94 Sarah Hatter You know? Yeah, it’s it’s such a funny story. My very first job when I was fifteen years old was working at a call centre. Actually this is a long, long, long time ago and and you know I look back on it now and I’m shocked that people who were.
06:20.30 james nathan Right.
06:43.26 Sarah Hatter Calling in to buy ShamWows off tv, we’re talking to a fifteen year old and reading their credit card number into it. You know into the phone but this was like, it feels like you know an eternity ago that we thought that was a smart idea.
So, I had an amazing trainer at this company who was who was very, very service oriented and taught me basic things about, you know, just like phone support, little tiny details like, you know, you don’t say ‘please hold’, you say to the person ‘are you able to hold’ and it started kind of embedding itself in my mind about how to speak to people.
I’ve never worked in retail, I’ve never worked in food service, I’ve never done anything like that. But I had this great basic experience of what a customer experience, a great customer experience should look like.
So when I was in college ,I you know, so was kind of in the world of tech. I grew up in Northern California and I had a lot of friends who were working in tech and I started doing. All my friends, you know, at the time were starting like we were starting a web app or you know.
And people always need help doing things like customer support. It was really into writing documentation and that’s how I got my start and then I went to work for a startup. I was there, starting in 2004/2005 until 2011 and obviously that was pretty much the golden age of, you know, learning what it’s like to have saas applications and customer experience and support for those applications.
Everything done remotely and then the heyday of apps kind of launching for smartphones.
09:54.62 Sarah Hatter So it gave me a really great base in foundation and then um, you know I had worked at this company. It was terrible company. Worked there for a long time horribly mismanaged. But I knew that I was doing a good job. No no one ever told me I was doing a good job, except our customers would tell me that I was doing a good job.
10:19.75 james nathan Right.
10:32.14 Sarah Hatter And sometimes people would contact me and they would work for other saas applications or apps and they would say can you come and teach us how to do the support that you do and so I kind of had this light bulb moment in 2010 or so, you know, there’s nobody out there teaching these companies. These new wave of tech companies, how to do great support. What that looks like and so I went out on my own started the company. I thought that it was just gonna be like you know, maybe like some freelance stuff until I found my next gig and…
Yeah here we are eleven years later and we’ve worked for hundreds of companies and you know my sweet spot sort of like my heart is really for that small startup growth stage company who doesn’t really have a budget for a huge experience process but they need help and they need a great foundation and we’ve done work for airlines and banks and.
11:56.87 james nathan Right.
12:22.76 Sarah Hatter Disney and you know huge companies and it’s just not fun. It’s not as much fun as working for smaller companies. So yeah.
12:21.63 james nathan Right? It’s funny how you find your your niche through going through different businesses isn’t it. What is it about those small businesses that you love so much?
12:49.38 Sarah Hatter I think it just has to do with the openness you know, even if they’re a funded company. You know when you’re a funded company. You are spending someone else’s money right? You have other people that you have to kind of listen to but but they also have such a tenacity around, like excellence.
And how their customers see them. They want to be the best they grew up on the tails of Zappos and and they really want to have that amazing word of mouth from customers. They want people to be telling stories about them and so if you don’t have a background in how to build that process and how to build because, you know, all of that Zappo stuff is, that’s curated. That’s created, they did that intentionally, it’s not like they just you know came out of the womb. Really good at customer support. You have to, you have to learn how to do it and then you have to implement it and some companies just don’t have that as as a skill set but the great thing is is.
14:25.30 james nathan No no.
14:47.44 Sarah Hatter When you do and it’s your passion, like it is for me and for my team, people who work with me. We can go in and set them up and then it’s just they run with it. So it’s awesome to see.
15:00.27 james nathan Yeah, it’s great when, you know, people like you mention Zappos and I think oh come on…. but then, you know, because they’ve become a bit of a cliche. You know people are happy to sort of turn the nose up a little bit but actually you know there’s lots to learn from businesses like that. And you also mentioned Disney. If you mention Nordstrom next we’re done aren’t we? But these people are awesome.
15:41.18 Sarah Hatter I know, but I know right? There’s like there’s, like that’s all people know about it but I will tell you, I have such amazing customer experiences now with newer brands that you never would have had ten years ago. You wouldn’t have had it five years ago. People understand how important that is the humanisation, the effortlessness, the sort of like proactive support.
We’re going to solve your problems before you have them and then just even if I have to have a support interaction the response I get is so friendly and empathetic and kind and understanding. Even if there’s a problem. It’s you know, I think it’s it’s less rare for me because I’m a consumer so I see it more I think because it’s something that’s like, it’s in my eyeline. I’m always looking out for those great experiences. But for the average person.
16:50.61 james nathan But but it’s rare isn’t it?
17:26.44 Sarah Hatter And their customer experiences are still with like Comcast and in healthcare care utility companies and NHS and all of these places where it’s just a terrible experience, so you kind of have that baggage when you go into any other experience that you’re going to have with someone in customer support right? You you expect it to be terrible.
17:52.45 james nathan Yeah, yeah, but when it’s good, isn’t it great and isn’t it nice when you can talk about it and it and it is you know you you mentioned the small companies… I bought some glasses a little while ago just some some reading glasses and they came gift-rapped and I thought that’s absolutely lovely.
18:05.64 Sarah Hatter Oh yes. And such a nice little touch.
18:30.50 james nathan Little handwritten cards saying you know we’re a small business and thank you for working with us. What a little effort but really lovely effort makes such a difference.
18:42.54 Sarah Hatter Yes, and you notice it and you talk about it and now in the same, the same wavelength is I am so particular about looking for those great little details and being you know, surprised and delighted and all that stuff. That when there’s a failure and that’s not living up to sort of this public corporate persona that someone has put out. You know, whatever it enrages me, like it enrages me to this point where I’m like…. I had an is an incident actually about six weeks ago bought a suitcase online and it was it was one of those like trendy, not Away but it’s like kind of like that, trendy travel for influencers kind of thing, paid extra to get it overnight it so I could take it on my trip. You know week goes by. It’s not here.
Few more days I’m getting tracking updates from Fedex saying like it’s going to be delivered. You know three days ago I contact the company and I’m like, hey something’s up with this I just need to cancel this I’ve got to go on a trip I’m not going to be around, just cancel, refund me.
Their response, the auto response first of all told me to expect a response in 4 to 6 business days. Like their autoresponder and that was like red flag number 1. Number 2 I get a response and they’re like we need to open an investigation with our shipping partner. We hope to have this resolved in the next 3 to five business weeks what? What?
21:32.50 james nathan What? what.
21:43.30 Sarah Hatter What, like what? And I don’t this is a thing like I know how to push people, I know how to escalate things. I do this for a living. I know that I’m getting bad support. I know how to like in a very friendly and kind ways say that’s not going to be the solution for me.
But what if you don’t what if you are just a consumer who’s just spent $200 on something and it’s lost in the mail and you get that kind of response? I mean that’s the kind of those things that people internalise and then tell those stories of like I’m telling the story of over and over again.
22:40.47 james nathan Ah, and it just yeah I listened to you and I think really for $200 I mean good, good businesses say I’m really sorry, let me Fedex you one right away and we’ll deal with it problem.
22:51.76 Sarah Hatter Can you believe it? No they never apologised. I need to make that clear and when I telling you the story, I tell the story and you make it very clear. They never apologised once they never apologised once even the auto responder that said we’re not going to get back to you for a week.
23:11.11 james nathan Really?
23:29.88 Sarah Hatter On a basic email, didn’t even include an apology! I remember working one time with a company when I started my consulting business. They flew me out to their big campus and I was meeting with the founders. They were very proud of everything that they were doing. We started getting down into like the nitty-gritty of things and like here’s my assessment here’s something I said, and I said you know, one of things I noticed that you never apologise to customers, they never say like oh I’m so sorry you’re having trouble, I’m so sorry about that…. and the founder was so adamant that no one in his company, especially on support is allowed to apologise to customers who are having a technical issue because it implies that we are responsible for the mess that this customer has gotten themselves in if they’ve done something wrong or broken some code or something.
24:58.43 james nathan Really? Sarah you talk like that and I think, you know, customer service, well, you know, complaints handling rule number one apologise for the way the problem.
25:19.14 Sarah Hatter Yeah, right. Apologise Apologise Apologise. Yeah apologise, and I was like, I’ll tell you offline who this company is because I don’t want to slam them, but I was shocked because it didn’t vibe with who they are reputationally right.
25:41.61 james nathan Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:47.92 Sarah Hatter It was just such a weird hill to die on and I remember just going back and forth with him saying, you know, you’re not if someone has gotten themselves into a problem. It is your fault because the documentation of the training wasn’t clear. They didn’t understand if they don’t understand how to use your product. That’s your that’s your fault for training and onboarding.
26:18.55 jamesnathan Yeah, and and the business development side of me says right… CoSupport guys here’s 2 companies to cold call today! Go and see them about what they’re doing. It’s terrible.
26:24.58 Sarah Hatter That’s not their fault. Yeah, exactly. It’s terrible. So it’s weird that there’s still some of those mentalities out there that people just don’t understand how important the basics are and I don’t have to take responsibility for the issue, I don’t have to say it’s my fault.
I do have to though set the tone in an email or a phone call that I’m on your side and I am with you to fix this. I’m going to do what I can and if the thing is language its the easiest way for us to do that. Language is free. It’s accessible to everybody. It’s malleable in you know, conversation. So just like check the ego at the door and make it right? It’s not that hard.
27:52.93 james nathan Yeah, there’s a very simple old saying isn’t there, like you treat people the way you’d like to be treated yourself, but that seems to to gone out the window and those stories you’ve talked about there.
28:15.68 Sarah Hatter I know and again I’m hypersensitive to this. I am also hypersensitive to like those those little details like you were saying the things you notice when it’s just like wow this was a seamless great experience and I find that it’s more in like small details in language you know.
Somebody somebody who’s like this stupid suitcase company. How easy would it have been for them to say so sorry you’re not going to get this in time or I hope you have a great trip or whatever it is just adding those little human touches because at the end of the day I’m a human and all.
You’re a human and we’re having a conversation. There’s not this, you know it’s not combat right.
29:36.39 james nathan Yeah, oh absolutely and I’m also glad it wasn’t Away because I’ve just ordered one of their cases waiting for it to arrive.
29:50.20 Sarah Hatter But you know it was not Away it was….. It was not Away. I’ll tell you their name offline as well.
29:57.79 james nathan Right? Absolutely and when I was looking you know, reading up and listening to some of your your stuff online. There’s a lot where you talk about the difference between customer support and customer service. Why do you call it support all the time?
30:19.98 Sarah Hatter Yeah, first of all I like the way it sounds but secondly I’ve been doing this for a long time and when I was starting at this you know.
Tech startup that I worked at I was called a customer service representative and it always felt gross. It always felt gross to me and it felt degrading and it felt like I was just the lowest on the totem pole and that. They were intentionally wanting me to know that my job was not as important as their head designers or senior developers and the truth is my job and especially when you’re the only person a team of one doing customer support or customer experience for a company like that. You are the most important job because you’re the only one actually communicating with customers.
You’re the only one actually seeing the results of the head designer’s bright idea. You’re the one only seeing the complaints from bad code that was pushed out in the middle of the night by a junior developer. So, it is incredibly important and that role needs to be, you know, you have to be very tender with that role and curate that role and really pour into that role and so the one thing that I always, I always coach companies on is coming up with like a support persona who are you to customers when you engage with them. And little tiny things that you do with language in your presentation really tell someone like this is going to be a great experience and we all have baggage around customer service.
We all have that baggage. I always tell people like if you want to just break it down easily and in the, you know the states, customer service is the return line at Walmart you know and customer support is more of that like very special I know that I’m going to get my problem solved I can count on these people that feeling that you have right.
So I Just I think that people should really be thoughtful about how they present what it is. They’re offering to their customers…. sometimes people use customer advocacy which I kind of like it just, it is very teamwork mentality right? Customer solutions. Whatever it is I just, I just I don’t like the way that customer service has been tainted by people’s bad experiences. So I’m like, let’s just let’s just get over there and it’s like you know I say the same thing like you don’t say thank you for your feedback you say to someone: Thanks so much for telling me about this experience or sharing your thoughts it means the same thing but it sounds.
34:59.45 james nathan Right. I’m with you, I’m with you.
Well, you know I was just about to ask…. you mentioned language and you know I’m in similar line, I’m fascinated by the way we can use words to to produce great results and you’ve just given us a really nice example there of of using language.
35:31.92 Sarah Hatter So much better, right? yeah.
36:03.30 james nathan In a different way to get a much nicer result. What’s the best you’ve seen when you’ve been working with these different companies? You have heard someone talking and thought wow that’s awesome I wouldn’t have done that and now I will.
36:30.54 Sarah Hatter Ah, gosh there’s been so many. There’s been so many, I will tell you one was actually yesterday I had a bad sort of a bad experience that led me to have to make a phone call which is like the depths of despair for anyone dealing with customer support right? A company called priority pass.
You know I used to travel a ton as a consultant and it’s just you prepay? This company to give access to lounges in airports. So not using it a ton obviously with covid I’m not flying as much as I did and I realised my renewal was coming up and I wrote them. Can you just pair me down to like the basic, the basic, the basic membership. Don’t hear back.
Whatever it’s a fight to find even a contact form or or an email on the website. They’re really pushing like call call call call call and I’m resisting it like anything so then I get this thing in the mail a week later. Thanks for renewing and I’m like gosh darn it. So I call them and I understand why they were pushing me to call them because it was picked up on the first ring by a beautiful voiced woman. She had this cool name and it was like you know it was just it felt so kind, like that kindness coming through and I told her what happened and she said a couple of things that I was I was shocked that she said, you know, obviously she’s like oh I’m so sorry that happened, I’m so sorry you had that experience with us.
But then she said I know other customers are having this problem as well. So I’m sure this is something on our end and the way she just took responsibility even you know, maybe companies like CEOs are cringing thinking that she’s just throwing everyone under the bus but I swear to you it was not I did not feel that way. I felt like she was, you know, not trying to skirt the issue. Your email didn’t get to us I’m so sorry so you know you’ve heard this before something is obviously happening but let me help you and it was just ah, a like a minute or 2 on the phone. She gave me all the information I needed and she’s like expect something in 24 hours if you don’t hear it call me back and it was like wow.
They have done such an amazing job training their employees and empowering their employees to use this kind of language and to get these kinds of solutions to people I was shocked because phone support to me is like I said it it is the it is the depths of hell.
41:02.51 james nathan Yeah, yeah.
41:29.50 Sarah Hatter Right? It’s just I think and people who do the job or have done the job. You know it’s very very difficult when you’re working for this some giant legacy corporation who’s outsourcing their phone support. It’s very hard to do it. Well so.
41:50.39 james nathan But I can hear you and in lots of ways I agree but also I get really frustrated when I can’t find a phone number, you know, I love talking to people and I’d rather just pick up the phone get it sorted.
42:10.46 Sarah Hatter Oh you do?
42:22.57 james nathan I don’t want to have to repeat myself 13 times, I don’t want to go through all of that junk. But I want to speak to someone because I’m on a chat bot and it’s driving me insane and I’m not getting what I want you know.
42:39.96 Sarah Hatter Oh I don’t, I don’t do chatbots I don’t even engage in chatbots anymore. I Just don’t do it I.
42:50.47 james nathan Well some companies you’ve got no choice. That’s the starting point and then you have to shout at it. So you know it’s like the old old thing of ringing 0 a number of times look which you’re through you know? But the fact that they do it so well is amazing.
42:59.36 Sarah Hatter I, yeah yeah, but I will just say just sort of yeah no I think that there are companies and obviously this is a company I’m telling you that I was shocked that they had an amazing phone experience because that’s usually not the case. To anybody who’s listening and they’re agreeing nodding along with us about the chat bots and the phone experience you have to remember too that that is a top-down decision from a CEO or a VP who is trying to budget cut around support and so they’re taking bodies out of seats.
Right? And they’re cutting these lower end salaries saying you know we’re gonna we’re going to deflect. We’re gonna deflect and we’re going to have a bot answer questions and the reasons that that’s terrible beyond what we, what we know is obvious is like, that’s the last place where you should be cutting resources. You should be absolutely pouring resources into having people there on the front lines because that’s the first impression that your customers have of you when they need help if it’s, if it’s just this giant ring around the Rosie and they are just so frustrated that they’re screaming into a phone tree. That’s, that’s what you’ve chosen their experience.
45:28.87 james nathan Yeah, yeah, and it’s amazing because I don’t think they go back through it themselves. I did some work years ago with with the group. It was a kind of a boardroom table organisation and one of the companies. There was a sports goods company and they were online.
And when I started talking about this sort of stuff he went: no no, no, no, no, we don’t want to talk to anybody. We don’t want our customers to speak to us ever and I thought well I hope you’ve got, you know, a really good business because you’re going to go broke, you know, with that sort of line of thinking.
46:30.50 Sarah Hatter Yeah, or you have to supplement it somewhere so you know a company comes to me and says we don’t want to invest in phone support. Great. Let’s invest in amazing onboarding. One of proactive support one of support resources and documentation. Let’s make it so easy for people to understand your product that they never have to ask a human being a question and then if they do let’s make it so that it’s a one call resolution type thing they get a response your turnaround time on every single email that comes through is 30 minutes and you know, that’s possible.
It can be done it just means like this, is again getting back to that like why do I like working with smaller businesses because smaller businesses will invest in that, they understand this is our lifeline right? This is who’s paying our our cheques every month is the people who are signing up right now and who hopefully will remain customers for a long time if they have that great experience.
48:21.97 james nathan But you do get that great experience with some big… I mean when you were talking about that. You know the business that comes to mind straight away is Apple. They design so you don’t need a handbook. Um, and I’ve recently got a new car I bought a Tesla….
All very excited, loads of videos, I knew everything about that thing before it arrived. Then it had to go back for a small problem and my goodness what a nightmare. You know the support in the background is horrible. You know for a very expensive car.
But it’s surprising when you when you see the front end being so good and the back end so poor.
49:38.48 Sarah Hatter Yeah, it’s the illusion right? It’s the illusion of this is everything you’ve ever wanted kind of thing until there’s a problem and that’s where I just don’t think that you know, the customer support is marketing. The experiences that people have with your support team or when there’s a problem or when they need a refund that is marketing. And if you don’t handle that well or if you cheap out on it or if you’re, you know, not investing in it as like the base of your pyramid when you’re building your company. It’s always going to fail you and that’s just that’s just terrible.
50:49.45 james nathan Ah, Sarah I love that customer support is marketing. I’m going to shout that for years to come, well I’ve got to quote you if that’s all right.
50:54.88 Sarah Hatter You know it’s so avoidable. I’ve been shouting that for years. There’s YouTubes of me, go ahead. I was telling people like I feel like a broken record sometimes because I’ve been saying this stuff for so long and as I say it more. More people say it as I preach the stuff more people get it and they implement it and that’s what we want to see you know we want to see people really hearing it just like you and being like that’s such a light bulb moment. So true you know and just running with it. Yeah.
51:51.57 james nathan Yeah, yeah. Tell me about Denver in September what’s going on?
52:08.76 Sarah Hatter So we’re back. It’s our ElevateCX, is our online community and event for customer experience professionals. So that’s the umbrella of gosh customer support, Customer Success, Community Management, Documentation Knowledge Management, we’ve been doing this since October 2012 so this is our 10th anniversary. Our 10th event. We’ve done events all over the United States few in London the last event we actually did was December 2019 and in Sydney Australia.
53:06.10 james nathan Fantastic.
53:13.26 Sarah Hatter So yeah I am glad I didn’t get stuck there but also kind of bummed I didn’t get stuck there that would have been cool. But yeah, so we haven’t had an event obviously in the last couple of years and people have just been begging me to do another one, so we are super excited. Our event is very well known in this space for just being the anti-tech conference.
It’s instead small, very relational, very social and we have about 20 speakers on stage over the days all in one room, single track, short talks with lots of time for people to get to know each other and to ask questions and to really build their own support network.
You know I started this this event it was because I had done I had started my consulting company and I was speaking a lot at conferences and traveling and to be honest with you I was just like there’s got to be other stories out there besides me I’m always. The only one talking about customer support and customer experience. So this is kind of the way that I found my people out there doing these jobs is to create this event where we can all get together. So yeah.
55:24.10 james nathan Sounds fantastic and Denver is a great place too.
55:34.16 Sarah Hatter It’s a great place. It’s equidistant from pretty much everywhere in the United States, we have a lot of international people who come in as well because it’s a great place to maybe spend a mini vacation. So please join us September 29 and 30 or if you’re interested. We’re still taking some speaker applications. You can find all that ElevateCX.co
56:04.93 james nathan Fantastic. And if you’re old as me and a bit of a Mork and Mindy fan you can get up to up to Boulder and see Mindy’s house while you’re there as well. If you haven’t been before.
56:24.14 Sarah Hatter Yeah, and what’s the right up there too near Boulder is the, the creepy hotel from the Shining, you can go and stay there.
56:34.59 james nathan Yes, yes, yes, yes, fantastic. The only time I’ve been to Boulder was years and years ago and I went with a friend of mine who was living in Denver, and I was sort of sort of you know, knocking on 30, and being an Australian not used to being asked for id at the bar or anywhere I went to a pub called the James because I thought that’s got to be a pub for me. And they wouldn’t let me in so that was my experience of trying to have a drink in Boulder.
57:38.13 james nathan It’s been so so nice chatting with you Sarah and so much to think about as well. What’s your 1 thing though, what’s your 1 big thing? If you’re going to leave our listeners with 1 idea something they could take away, they could do differently in their business today to make a difference for today and for the years to come. What would that thing be?
57:44.94 Sarah Hatter Yeah, thank you, Thank you so much for having me. This is so funny because we’re closing where we started with email signatures and salutations and greetings right? Just the most basic of the English language the stuff we learn in primary school.
Take a look at what you’re sending to people and those Auto responders, take a look at how you introduce yourself and how you end those conversations and just start there be radical with it. So that people talk about it. They notice it right?? Sometimes people are are afraid of being too Cutesy. You don’t have to be cutesy but try to be a little informal and a little bit more friendly and set a tone that’s going to be that persona like I said for your support team. Small changes like that make a huge huge difference take a look at those stock answers. Thank you for your feedback. I apologise for the inconvenience and just wipe them out of your vocabulary and say you know we’re going to start it. It will kind of set you on a path for changing all of those small details around your experience. So, be thoughtful about it, stop thinking about speed so much and start thinking about that human connection.
01:00:14.19 james nathan Fabulous. I love that Sarah what a great bit of advice and thank you again. It’s been so so nice chatting with you, absolute pleasure.
01:00:33.44 Sarah Hatter You too. Thanks for having me.